Natural Horsemanship... grrr! *Rant, sorry*

Not really, though yes, really LOL For the green person, yes, it is largely about the human. But as you the human gain more experience, it is very valid to use the Levels to train a horse, because it’s still just good training concepts - yield to pressure, do it quickly but calmly, and in whatever direction I ask. When I ride you, go forward from my leg, come back from my hand and seat, stay at a gait and direction I put you on until I ask you to do otherwise. Start to learn how to carry yourself without me holding you up. Sounds like basic dressage work :slight_smile: There are some suggested patterns to ride to help a lazy horse go forward, or to help a hot horse slow down, and some work for some horses, some don’t, and that’s where you as a rider get to use judgement in learning what works for what type of horse on what day. Sounds like generic good, basic training :slight_smile:

A “level xyz Parelli trained horse” doesn’t mean anything, because there are no horse levels.

Agreed, but mostly because IME it’s much more likely that a PNH-wannabe who has no idea what they are doing THINK they have a Level 2 horse, and that usually means they didn’t know what they were doing and the horse is pretty screwed up. If Pat himself told me a 2yo filly was at Level 2 groundwork, I would KNOW what that filly knows, which is a pretty darn good amount of ground work and it would be correct work.

When a friend hosted a PP clinic, that is a clinic given by a PP certified instructor, they needed a few extra warm bodies, so a friend and I went.
At that time, they said the best to learn the PP basics was to come with the nicest, olderst horse we could find, because it was about the people, not horse and the less problems a horse may have, the better it was already trained, the better the students would be able to practice what the clinic was teaching.

Agreed - if you want to learn the PNH principles as your training, the saner and more cooperative the horse, the better, but he doesn’t have to be a saint who doesn’t offer any resistance. Part of teaching the human is being able to fix things that don’t go exactly as planned, and for that to happen, the horse has to do things “wrong” here and there. Nobody every really learns to ride or handle a horse until they learn to correct issues.

Since many people don’t have other than young or hard to handle horses, because that is what many beginners somehow end up with, or well trained horses in beginner’s hands without help end up untrained, that is why so many PP clinics have less than ideal horse/handler pairs working.
I think that is why they had to adjust to that reality and make it all so simple and repetitive.

Agreed. Idealism is not often reality when it comes to horses. And face it, good training all boils down to simple, repetitive aids and tasks. They may end up merging together into a complicated aid and task, but everything breaks down to small parts that were exercised over and over until it was ingrained in the horse. The number of reps may be 5 times for something for one horse, and 27 times for the same thing for the next horse, but that is all because horses do not learn the same way or at the same rate. That goes for every single training method in every discipline out there.

I try to take a moderate approach to everything…I use a few methods from trainers I’ve had,classical trainers, books, HANDS ON EXPERIENCE, and ‘the rich and famous trainers.’ It comes down to what builds you and your horse’s confidence and completes the team.

I’ve used some ‘natural’ methods and more ‘traditional’ ones too.

I recently had a run in with an Anderson-starry-eyed-devotee. It pretty much ruined me enjoying the people that go to the barn where I board. She was trying to suggest something…which is fine but then went in to a rant about how I didn’t know what I was doing blah blah blah. Anyways I said something b*tchy back (pms can’t help it) and she starting yelling at me and throwing a fit, chucking her tack against the wall, and making a big scene. Meanwhile, my recently purchased young TB that wasn’t handled a good chunk of her life is freaking out (she had pms too), awesome scene can you picture it? I told the barn owner what happened, she asked ‘well did you pay her to train your horse?’ HAHA

This person is a newbie, got her first horse as an adult about 4 years ago. I had a horse in mom and dad’s back yard at age 11 (I’m just about 30). Goes back to that HANDS ON EXPERIENCE thing.

There’s no magical wavy wand poofy poo.

[QUOTE=missyrideson;4235992]
I try to take a moderate approach to everything…I use a few methods from trainers I’ve had,classical trainers, books, HANDS ON EXPERIENCE, and ‘the rich and famous trainers.’ It comes down to what builds you and your horse’s confidence and completes the team.

I’ve used some ‘natural’ methods and more ‘traditional’ ones too.

I recently had a run in with an Anderson-starry-eyed-devotee. It pretty much ruined me enjoying the people that go to the barn where I board. She was trying to suggest something…which is fine but then went in to a rant about how I didn’t know what I was doing blah blah blah. Anyways I said something b*tchy back (pms can’t help it) and she starting yelling at me and throwing a fit, chucking her tack against the wall, and making a big scene. Meanwhile, my recently purchased young TB that wasn’t handled a good chunk of her life is freaking out (she had pms too), awesome scene can you picture it? I told the barn owner what happened, she asked ‘well did you pay her to train your horse?’ HAHA

This person is a newbie, got her first horse as an adult about 4 years ago. I had a horse in mom and dad’s back yard at age 11 (I’m just about 30). Goes back to that HANDS ON EXPERIENCE thing.

There’s no magical wavy wand poofy poo.[/QUOTE]

I know a lot of people that have been around horses all their life and still do not know much. I know people that have been around horses for six months and know tons.

Also, just because one person said something is not reason to condemn an entire group of people. When I was younger, dressage was evil - I have no idea where it came from but it was the standard thoughts the the barn where I rode…a hunter/equitation place…no ‘Natural Horsemanship’ there.

Look at the Rollkur thread on this forum and see references to the ‘sheeple’ who follow Rollkur. You are going to get people who unwaveringly devote themselves to a person (Jimmy Wofford, George Morris, Watler Zettl, Anky) and cannot fathom that person being anything other than infallible. They will attach themselves to a training method without considering the pros and cons to carefully first. This is not unique to Natural Horsemanship at all and I see it all the time on these boards and out around the horse world, in all disciplines.

[QUOTE=Ajierene;4236284]
I know a lot of people that have been around horses all their life and still do not know much. I know people that have been around horses for six months and know tons.

Also, just because one person said something is not reason to condemn an entire group of people. When I was younger, dressage was evil - I have no idea where it came from but it was the standard thoughts the the barn where I rode…a hunter/equitation place…no ‘Natural Horsemanship’ there.

Look at the Rollkur thread on this forum and see references to the ‘sheeple’ who follow Rollkur. You are going to get people who unwaveringly devote themselves to a person (Jimmy Wofford, George Morris, Watler Zettl, Anky) and cannot fathom that person being anything other than infallible. They will attach themselves to a training method without considering the pros and cons to carefully first. This is not unique to Natural Horsemanship at all and I see it all the time on these boards and out around the horse world, in all disciplines.[/QUOTE]

Maybe a few more details would’ve helped and maybe my issue wasn’t really appropriate to the thread but like I said approach with moderation.

[QUOTE=missyrideson;4257802]
Maybe a few more details would’ve helped and maybe my issue wasn’t really appropriate to the thread but like I said approach with moderation.[/QUOTE]

I understand approach with moderation, my comment was only on fact that you seemingly allowed one person and one instance to color your perception of an entire group of people. Take into consideration that some people are starry eyed Anky devotees, George Morris devotees, Jimmy Wofford devotees. Starry eyed is not exclusive to Natural Horsemanship. The difference is that some other devotees are ‘acceptable’ on these boards while Natural Horsmanship-esque trainers are not.

Start really looking through the threads on other subjects, in other forums here - you will see people ranting about the nerve of wearing black field boots, talking about George Morris, Anky, Wofford as if they are dieties. It is NOT confined to one discipline.

It’s funny though that there are many, many threads just like this one about Parelli Peeps that love to criticize others, or tell them what they ‘think’ they don’t know. So…it’s not just one person doing this.:winkgrin: