'Natural Remedies' - Why are these so popular?

[dungrulla]

I noticed that bute-less has caught on lately as a ‘natural remedy to control inflammation’ and looked into it a little bit. The ingredients are:

Wheat Middings - flavoring
Alfalfa Meal - flavoring
Dried Molasses - flavoring
Yucca Schidigera Extract - No proven effect in horses on joint health
Mineral Oil - Not sure why this is in here honestly, probably as a binder
Devil’s Claw Root - contains harpagoside, which is an NSAID just like Bute
Natural and Artificial Flavors added - flavoring
Vitamin B-12 supplement - supplement that probably doesn’t do much for inflammation

So…what we’ve done here is taken a known substance like Bute or Previcox with a known metabolic pathway and dosage and well-understood side effect profile, taken it away because it might cause stomach ulcers, and replaced it with another substance that also has an effect on the same metabolic pathway that causes stomach ulcers, except now it’s at an unknown strength and dosage.

Does this seem really silly or even outright DANGEROUS to anyone else?

The vast majority of supplements seem to be like this. At best, they don’t do anything, and at worst, they can have severe detrimental effects on the animal (such as when you give them an unknown dose of a known NSAID such as devil’s claw continuously).

A few really do work, like hylauronic acid. A few work because they contain a pharmacological agent, like raspberry leaves, which are high in magnesium, or again, devil’s claw.

I just cannot wrap my head around why this stuff is all so popular.

[BigPaintHorse]

Does not require a prescription and offers some hope of being effective. Also don’t you know “all natural” can’t hurt anyone. (arsenic anyone?)

[JB]

It’s a widespread issue in EVERYthing these days, whether people, horses, cats, or dogs. I realize it’s part of how humans work - they find problems with one “extreme” (aka modern medicine) so the answer, to them, is to go to the opposite extreme (despite little to no evidence that whatever social media is saying has any validity), and avoid them all in favor of what PopSugar and MyPetHorse say is the best thing to use.

Confirmation bias is real, and most don’t recognize when they’re in the process of it :no:

Maybe one good thing coming out of this is that some of these things do end up in real, honest to goodness studies, and are either disproven, proven, or put into the “unlikely to hurt, may help but more study is needed” category. It’s not ALL bad.

But it’s the supplement marketing space DREAM because they know they’re not regulated, and as long as they don’t say “will cure”, they can do what they want. They can even take the fact that, for example, green lipped mussel is actually proven to have joint health benefit, at X dosage, put GLM in their product, and claim “proven to improve joint health”, even though their product contains just 1/20th of the proven dosage of GLM rolleyes

It all means - do you OWN research, on credible sites, and try to point to the actual studies when presented with magic pixie dust being a cure for anything, especially everything.

[Guilherme]

It’s the triumph of wishful thinking and ignorance over science and knowledge. That is a trend that has been developing for a couple of decades. Parallel trends are the rejection of vaccination without any scientific basis; the rise of “alternative medicine” which has no demonstrated validity; and the rejection of demonstrated fact because it doesn’t play well to a preconceived notion. To say much more would cross into the political arena so that’s enough about this.

G.

[btswass]

My own experience is my horse goes absolutely crazy one bute. I can’t give it to him for fear he will actually hurt himself. But he has pedal osteitis in his front right hoof and although he has special pads and a great farrier he still is more comfortable with an anti inflammatory. For him I use CBD pellets. Works fantastic for keeping him comfortable and sound and doesn’t turn him into a maniac the way bute does.

I think there are a lot of people looking for a longer term pain/inflammation treatment that turn to products like bute-less. I used it before I discovered CBD pellets. But I also think theres a belief that supplements can’t hurt so the more the better

[bugsynskeeter]

Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Middlings, and molasses are used to bind the pellet together. Some people feel that it is easier on their horse’s stomach vs NSAIDS.

The standard version is not show legal. They do have a new version that is show legal. We’ve had people that use it on rescues because its cheaper then previcox or bute.

[Bluey]

Just remember, anecdota is not data.

Plenty of studies show placebos also work:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-know-placebo-201607079926

[4LeafCloverFarm]

Anyone else remember when the only supplement out there was Clovite?

[Training_Cupid]

I noticed that people care too much what other people do. Why not just let others do what they feel best for themselves or their horses?

[S1969]

@BigPaintHorse

Does not require a prescription and offers some hope of being effective. Also don’t you know “all natural” can’t hurt anyone. (arsenic anyone?)

Agreed - the fact that many natural remedies do not require a vet visit is a huge reason.

And, realistically, there is nothing wrong with most of them and lots of them work. Not sure I’d go quite so far as saying they are “dangerous” when used as directed…not any more than a lot of prescription meds. Lots of vets will prescribe NSAIDs for long term use or for a barn to simply have on hand to use as desired/as needed.

Not sure that placebos work on animals, but the placebo effect of “helping” might make the owner feel better.

[BigMama1]

Honestly because people are gullible.
G nailed it regarding the rejection of science - just look at the climate change debate. “Instincts” about what’s happening now apparently trump decades of
scientific research. Looking up stuff from dubious sites on the internet is now considered “research.” Ditto the anti vax movement - leading to a resurgence in deadly diseases which had been all but eradicated. Look at the couple who tried to tried their son’s meningitis with cayenne pepper and ginger, then were shocked when he died and even more so when they were arrested?

With horses we seem particularly willing to believe everything and try anything. Anybody can call themselves an expert and build a convincing website and community of followers, regardless of credentials or qualifications. Critical thinking needs to make a comeback, stat!

[Palm_Beach]

@Guilherme

It’s the triumph of wishful thinking and ignorance over science and knowledge. That is a trend that has been developing for a couple of decades. Parallel trends are the rejection of vaccination without any scientific basis; the rise of “alternative medicine” which has no demonstrated validity; and the rejection of demonstrated fact because it doesn’t play well to a preconceived notion. To say much more would cross into the political arena so that’s enough about this.

G.

Nailed it. Buteless is crap and a waste of money.

[Guilherme]

@Training Cupid

I noticed that people care too much what other people do. Why not just let others do what they feel best for themselves or their horses?

1. PSA on effectiveness to warn others of low probability of success.

2. PSA that a product does not contain what the label says.

3. PSA that the product caused injury.

4. Etc.

What a person “feels” and what “is” can be two, VERY different things. Unless the observer has taken the time to do a SOAP and the time to document the success or failure of the plan we are left with nothing but anecdote and that is a poor substitute for data.

A wise fellow named Mill once observed that, “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”

G.

[dungrulla]

@btswass

My own experience is my horse goes absolutely crazy one bute. I can’t give it to him for fear he will actually hurt himself. But he has pedal osteitis in his front right hoof and although he has special pads and a great farrier he still is more comfortable with an anti inflammatory. For him I use CBD pellets. Works fantastic for keeping him comfortable and sound and doesn’t turn him into a maniac the way bute does.

I think there are a lot of people looking for a longer term pain/inflammation treatment that turn to products like bute-less. I used it before I discovered CBD pellets. But I also think theres a belief that supplements can’t hurt so the more the better

I give a cat-specific CBD blend to my cat in kidney failure. It fixes absolutely nothing but this kind of product is a known way of making yourself or your animal really hungry/thirsty, so it makes it easier to manage his weight and fluid intake. I’m giving it to harness a side effect rather than because I think it actually does anything for his kidneys.

[dungrulla]

@S1969

Not sure that placebos work on animals, but the placebo effect of “helping” might make the owner feel better.

Interestingly, they do! I forget what the exact mechanism is but animals do fall prey to the placebo effect if they are exposed to their owners.

[JB]

While I agree that often we should live and let live, when someone is complaining about the high cost of quality feed, but also looking for cheap supplements to fix feet and manes and coat, or being afraid of bute so wanting to know “the best” natural alternative, etc, it’s irresponsible, IMHO, to not attempt to educate the person on they why don’t need all those supplements (which may work, but are not the answer to fixing a poor diet), or why pain killers of any nature cannot be without potential risks no matter whether they are natural or not.

[jvanrens]

Buteless is a big thing at the track where my daughter is stabled now. I think there the popularity is partially because they likely won’t be testing for it and it might help…and no, our horses are not on it.

[merrygoround]

Not just horse people. Read labels on your own food. Gluten free- Non GMO-Sugarless-Fat free., etc. etc.

I have no complaints about labeling the dietary breakdown of food, but the rest is nonsense unless you have a pertinent ailment.

[Heinz_57]

@BigPaintHorse

Does not require a prescription and offers some hope of being effective.

In the people I know of and interact with that use these things, this is primary reason #1. They don’t want to pay a farm call, exam fee, or associated diagnostic costs when Dobbin is stiff or lame - even though it may be cheaper in the long run to do so. Spending $50 on supplements every month is easier to swallow than $500 once a year.

Secondary to that are the people that believe modern medicine is the devil. They also refuse to use chemical dewormers or vaccinate against illness or disease.

[Guilherme]

My favorite cinematic comment on “alternatives.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=m1yM2babqZs

G.

P.S. Watch the whole thing.