Neck Stretchys, Chambons, Draw Reins, German Martingales etc.

[Nickelodian]

What do you use, how much do you use it, is there a type of horse for each?

My new horse practically lived in one of these devices at his old barn. Every time I saw him he had some sort of head down contraption. But, he has come away with a great headset.

I know that there are all kinds of devices to keep/get a horse’s head down, but when is it to much? When do these things begin to take the place of training? When are they appropriate?

I guess in general I would like to start a discussion about head down devices and the different views on them.

[Cinnybren]

My boy was really helped with lunging in a chambon. It really helped strengthen his back and get soft and long. Did wonders for him. As most everyone has mentioned, when aids like this are used correctly they can be very handy tools.

[Bumpkin]

I don’t condone using “devices”, and definately in the wrong hands anything can be bad.
With that being said…the bunge is the easiest thing to use and the horse can raise his head if he desires.
The rider is not the one controlling the head set.
We used one on Poncho, and it helped tremendously. I will add we have always had it at the longest it will go.
For 16$ it is worth the try.

[pt2]

It takes TIME to train a horse properly - 3 to 5 years is not unusual. Very few riders/owners nowadays want to take that much time. Hence, the various quick fixes.

Before I zip up my flame-retardant suit and borrow the high-usage fire extinguisher - may I suggest there is a post on the TTLT board concerning a troubled Arab being reschooled. It took MONTHS to get this horse to walk and trot correctly. Months to get a canter on one lead. More time to get the other lead. Interesting, because the owner and trainer are both willing to take the time it takes.

But it is certainly faster to reach for those artificial “aids,” and many trainers who could train the horse without them, given time, are forced to use them by time constraints set by owners.

Who are happy with the ribbons and medals, and never notice the horse is miserable. Or made unsound.

Zipping suit and grabbing extinguisher now.

[Spunky]

While in theory the “only a snaffle bit” is always attainable, I have to disagree in practice.

There are some horses that due to conformation, genetics, skin type, etc. will never go in a loose-ring snaffle.

I’d find myself riding some horses for many a year before they finally went to my satisfaction in a plain jointed snaffle bit. And that would probably be due to old age! Now maybe that is due to my inadequacy as a rider, but just because I don’t have natural talent does that mean I shouldn’t be riding? Does it mean that I suck? Does it mean that I shouldn’t have competition goals? Hardly!

Fact of the matter is, there are a lot more riders than there are naturally talented ones, and a lot more horses than the naturally talented riders would ever be able to ride! So the horses still need us average-talented ones!!

Would that I were a naturally gifted rider. I’m not, so I will continue to work my butt off to keep improving. In the meantime, I will use whatever tack I feel is appropriate work as a partner with my horses.

[Showhorse]

At first glance, I thought that in the photo the passing horse’s back leg was YOUR horse’s back leg! I was like OMG WHATS WRONG WITH HIS LEG!!

As for devices - I hate draw reins, never used a chambon or german martingale, hate standing martingales, love occasional use of side reins or neck stretchy. But Im mostly a purist as well.

Zipping up suit

[Gnarly]

I had to ride a very famous Grand prix jumper for a week while his rider went horse shopping (between WEF and Tampa). Aged horse - 12 years…
Being a purist I tossed away the draw reins, and killer bridle… “just to hack you need all this?!” Current and previous rider both hacked him in serious stopping appliances. His show bridle looked like a bridge (with a bit burr).
What do THEY know!
Day one- loose ring bridle…torn skin on fingers, arms so sore I could barely hold reins,…
Day two- draw reins, snaffle. arms worse.
…
by the end of the week I had the same bridle and draw reins (to billets), that he always wears “just to hack.”
His regular laughed at my purity and said “I told you so.”
Some horses are just not made to go in a loose ring! Everybody who ever had to ride him gave into tack appropriate to his instability.

[Tosca]

Cindy-probably the reason that horse you rode “had” to go like that was because someone didn’t train him properly. Now I can understand that some horses become much stronger while jumping and need a strong bit, martingale, whatever, but no one can tell me that a horse must be outfitted with draw reins and a strong bit to safely manage them when hacking because “some horses are just not made to go in a loose ring.”

[DMK]

pt2 - your points are certainly not without merit, and I’m glad that the people you referenced are taking the time to retrain the Arab correctly and without gadgets, although that certainly is basic training 101. No gadget can teach a horse to relax.

But don’t you think it’s quite possibly wrong to infer that every horse that ever had draw reins, martingales or other artificial aids is miserable, unhappy or poorly trained? I certainly use less gadgetry and artificial aids than the average person, but I don’t think that EVERYONE who uses them is taking shorcuts or doesn’t know the proper way to train a horse (I do agree a LOT of people use them without proper knowledge of how and when to use them though).

[Cougar2]

Before you make comments you should perhaps ask just how long I take to re-train my horses. My own personal OTTB was laid up for 3 years, I purchased him as the black needle was being put into his jugular, I was told he would never walk and was so vicious he would just assume kill you as look at you. I did not get on his back for another 2 years, and rode him on the flat for another 2 years, he jumped cross rails for another year before he went into the hunter ring. I NEVER ride with spurs or crops. My jumper was purchased off the circuit and was so brain fried he would shake in front of a cross rail and this horse was a zone 10 medal horse. I did not jump him again for 3 years, he did dressage and flat only.

Yes I will put a german on a horse and it fixes the problem in about 10 minutes. I don’t feel its necessary to pester my horses for months, a german in no way hurts a horse. He stops pulling, pressure on his neck gone. period. ALL my horses come off the track and its one heck of a dice throw when you get one, because generally you have to wait and see what you are going to get.

Please don’t assume by one post that I gadget my horses up to ‘fix’ them quickly. But tell me this what is the harm in a german for 10 minutes vs draw reins for 6 months to correct the same problem? Personally I’ll take the 10 minutes. As I said before a german is the ONLY piece of gadgetry you will find in my tack room. (and I pull that out once in a great while) I can honestly say my horses are quiet, happy, and go around quite nicely. I have taken horses in that were going for meat. And I am proud to say I gave them another chance. A horse that’s been abused and beaten I believe must be treated a little differently, hence why i never use spurs or a crop. I have found most horses problems have zero to do with the horse but the rider. But the horse has to pay with gadgets and bulls**t.

Everyone has their own way of teaching their horses, and each way has its own results. I perhaps should have written more as to why I have used one. Don’t be so quick to judge until you have ridden my horses and been around my barn.

www.hollyhorse.com

[Nickelodian]

What do you use, how much do you use it, is there a type of horse for each?

My new horse practically lived in one of these devices at his old barn. Every time I saw him he had some sort of head down contraption. But, he has come away with a great headset.

I know that there are all kinds of devices to keep/get a horse’s head down, but when is it to much? When do these things begin to take the place of training? When are they appropriate?

I guess in general I would like to start a discussion about head down devices and the different views on them.

[DMK]

ooooh, DD20… never say never - hopefully it’s a long life and a lot of horses ahead of you!

(But if you don’t agree with draw reins, that’s perfectly fine with me.)

[Fiction]

We ride Benji w/t a standing martingale(& breastplate, but he has lousy conformation) and sometimes we use draw reins, just because we’re teaching him to keep a frame and hold it when I let go. And he needs to build up his neck. He really has no idea what he’s doing, so we have to teach him to carry himself and hold a frame. But we normally don’t jump w/t the draw reins…He only goes in a slow twist d ring tho…Sometimes a corkscrew
ttyl
~Kris~

[Cougar2]

A german martingale is a good device for horses that say pull, the martingale works by the horse pulling against himself. When the horse starts to pull it applies pressure to the neck, (and takes the pulling off of your arms) when the horse stops pulling the pressure ceases, thus I have found a smart horse will stop pulling usually within 10 minutes. It is a however a very dangerous piece of equipment in the wrong hands and its very easy to pull a horse over backwards if you use it incorrectly. I personally prefer a german over draw reins as I think it is a quicker fix than having the horse spend 6 months in draw reins. I should add that this is in addition to lots of flat work, and schooling etc… I just don’t want the term ‘quick fix’ to be misunderstood. Personally I don’t feel its necessary to ‘pester’ a horse with gadgets every day, but each horse is an individual, and if a horse is pulling my arms out of the sockets I will put a german on it in a hot second, all of my horses are or were severaly abused TB’s or brain fried horses, so I prefer as I said not to pester them to much.

www.hollyhorse.com

[This message was edited by Cougar2 on Mar. 22, 2001 at 12:26 PM.]

[pt2]

I may have some thoughts on your mare’s looky-looky attitude and mindless lunging.

[DudleyDog]

When teaching my horse his framework, my trainer lunged him in side reins for approx. 3 mins in each direction. I used a standing martingale while jumping. And for a while there I did remember using draw reins for also approx about 5 mins after he was warmed up, but before we started working on rounding him out. We thought about 5 mins with draw reins kinda gave him ‘the idea’ of what we were asking, and it did.
I do agree with everyones statement that the main reason they dont use this stuff was because of lack of knowledge and experience. However, if my trainer wasnt the one using these ‘gadgets’ herself, I was under the careful eye of her.
Ok-gotta go hit some golf balls!

Erin
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1152416&a=8466152

[SGray]

horse liked to rear/spin on longe - mostly just to have her own way - using neck-stretcher showed her that it was a BAD idea - it was adjusted such that it had no real effect unless she decided to be a brat and then it would provide pressure but because of elasticity she did no freak

[CdnRider]

I agree that “gadgets” come in very useful when they are used properly. In my opinion ALOT of people don’t use them properly. Alo I think they should never be used for an entire ride, always loosen off the draw reins before you quit so that your horse is listening to your hands.

I have another GREAT gadget though that can’t be used improperly really (it would be quite difficult). Attach half a draw rein to your girth between your horse’s legs. Bring it up through the flash (right by their chin) and then to your hand. Beleive me it works!! And this way you aren’t interfering with your horses mouth. The biggest diadvantage is you have to keep it on your outside rein so you have to switch it over when you change direction. However if you wanted you could probably use 2 draw reins, but make sure you slack the inside one at tighten the outside one.

And again I only advocate the use of this for half a ride. You can keep it tight enough so that if your horse throws his head up, it’ll catch him, but for the main part you’ll be using your hands not draw reins to keep him round.

[Spunky]

(Spunky runs screaming from the room!)

Someone oh please educate me . . . when has a standing martingale ever “produced” a good ride??!!

[Black_Market_Radio]

I only lunge a few times a month, I would say 3-4 times at the very most, and then she gets turned out in the arena for 20 mins at least after.

Also, if she wants to put her head up, the chambon is loose enough that she can do so. All it does is encourage her not to do so. While riding, she is au natural and she does just fine. But when on the lunge, she is a looky-loo that has her head everywhere but concentrating on her job.

Wow, who knew? I would be defending the use of a gadget! LOL! But I made sure I had experienced hands teaching me, and it is used in moderation and not to cram and jam a head set.