I thought of this too. I honestly don’t know what I will say. Suggestions? @Ghazzu, if you could chime in on this one as well.
@2DogsFarm can confirm that the vet choices around here are… not great. I call a few of them “vaccine vets”. Good for vaccines - anything else, go to Purdue. Their vet is one of the “VVs”.
I wish I had a good suggestion. It’s pretty hard to get most people to change their opinions on service providers unless they are experiencing a problem that they feel isn’t being addressed. You won’t be able to keep moving the bar for them - they get their vet to say the horse is fine, you disagree, they get a different vet, no consensus there either, etc, etc.
At some point you may just have to say that your relationship with them isn’t working out and stop teaching the girl completely.
I LOFF Dr Lescun @ Purdue 
But yeah, Equine vets here are hens’ teeth 
I have had instructors who excused students from a lesson if their horse was not going sound.
It was never that obvious because these riders would not have ridden a lame horse. But it was clear to the instructor and their experience.
I had an instructor who told me on the very first lesson that my horse had stifle issues that had to be addressed before he could work with me.
This horse was not limping. Most people not schooled in these issues wouldn’t have noticed anything. I had been the frog in the water pot being brought to boil, not noticing the gradual increase in symptoms that the horse was accommodating. But the new instructor saw it right away and called it out. Horse did end up getting injections and we worked with that instructor for 2 years.
I am glad the instructor spoke up when he did even though it delayed the start to working with him.
Agreed. Second only to Dr. Adams, who is now retired. Dr. Adams himself admits that Dr. Lescun has surpassed his ability - which, knowing Dr. Adams, is WOW.
Regarding what if the vet clears the horse -
Leave out that caveat in your initial speech, just “I’m sorry, I cannot continue to work with this horse that has an ongoing lameness issue.”
If they come back and say, “BUT OUR VET!!!” Then say, “I’m sorry, I am not comfortable working with the horse. I have very high standards in regards to the comfort of animals I work with and I’m very sorry, but to my eye, the horse is consistently lame and I will not work with a horse that is consistently uncomfortable.”
I think the above posts sum up what you’ve presented here.
You have done all you can. You live in a different world from the world they live in. They are electing to stay in their world and not join yours.
You are closer and have a better read on the prospects for change. But you sound pretty frustrated right now. I don’t think you should hang on being frustrated indefinintely.
The thing is, as you’ve described it, they are choosing the ‘low-bar’ world of horses. Your standards are higher. But they are comfortable with the ‘low-bar’ standard. Don’t treat mild lameness, keep riding, make the horse accommodate.
Either set a date in your own head for when you need to feel better about how they are handling the situation to continue working for them, or go ahead and cut ties now.
I recommend the break-up line to be “I think your daughter is at the point where you will be better off with a more western-show-oriented trainer, since that is what you most want to do. I’m really glad I was able to help to this point.”
I recommend against saying “it’s not working out”, especially if you choose to forego the vet discussion (although I like sascha’s approach a lot). Because they will talk this around and it will sound as if you were the one who pulled the rug out from under them. That could block your chances to help someone else in the future where possibly you can make an attitude change. It’s better if their takeaway is “endless climb helped us so much with this training problem, try working with her for a while”.
You have helped. Good for you! 
None of us can fix everything, though. We can working on training and horsemanship, but we can’t fix the inside of people’s heads.
I have a very slight passing familiarity with the world you mention and how burned-out and blown-out some reining horses are by the time they are 3 or 4 years old because of the emphasis some have on the 2 yo futurities. Mentally and physically fried, not much of a future left for them.
Perhaps this one was somewhere in that milieu and then shuffled off to auction as I’m sure many others are as well. Disposable objects for the temporary enjoyment of owners.
Not all reiners and horsemen in that world are like that, at all – there are some very fine, caring horsepeople in the reining world, some are competing on horses well past 5 years old.
But. Everyone makes their choices.
If this family is choosing the low-maintenance, use em till they break, then off to pasture or auction mentality, that’s not on you. You’ve offered them a look at another path and they are turning their back.
It’s no mystery why they are choosing the vet they want to stick with. It’s a reflection of who they are. People tend to make their choices consistent with their inner landscape.
I agree with all of what you’ve said, except this little blurb. There literally are no choices up here for farm-call vets. You either get the one who will ghost you when a problem gets serious (every god damn time I swear to god), or the one who wants to talk about horoscopes and how her fiancé was sleeping with her assistant. Neither of those two ride, neither of those two know lameness if it hit them upside the head. Want injections? You have one option, and that vet is not allowed on the backsides of tracks anymore due to ethical violations. Whoopee! (I also picked up 5-6 sharps he left scattered on the barn driveway one night, after injecting someone’s horse).
If you want vet care, you have to pack up and go to Purdue or other large animal clinic. I think for a newer owner, that’s a big step. They think it will be expensive, they think it’s unnecessary. That’s why I am willing to go with them - I know it’s scary to take that big step, I was there. But when it’s time to advocate for your horse, you HAVE TO.
(I get this. I have an acquaintance who uses a sub par vet because he is…fun! I finally talked her into using my good lameness vet and she didn’t like him.)
Very good points. And still – this is the choice they are making. Not to put Dobbin first, load up and head for Purdue and at least hear what that level of vet would say about him.
If you think you can influence them to make this trip even just once, you might find it worthwhile to hang in there.
We are here for you to vent while you work through it! 
Maybe do what riders do when we are asking our horses to take a big step forward in training and they are hesitating, by making it a smaller, easier task. (The pool noodle curtain will not hurt you! 
Oh ok, I’ll get off and we’ll play round with just one pool noodle in my hand. Then try it with me in the saddle and my friend holding the noodle. And go from there.)
Break it down into smaller, easier to manage steps that don’t seem so threatening. “How about this, let’s call ahead and get an idea for a ballpark price for diagnostics only. Including a few x-rays if they want to do them. You don’t have to commit to any course of action on this trip. Just let them take a look and hear what they say. And if they recommend treatment, get some cost estimates of what that would mean. Because the ouchy steps aren’t getting better and could get worse. We don’t want Janie to loose her ride on this horse, and not be able to show, if he gets worse than he is now.”
Maybe if they can see a “real” vet in action and hear a different approach, that might impress them. In any case they will have knowledge that they didn’t have before. They may need time to process it. Give them that time - but not forever.
And maybe while they are at Purdue with the vet they say “Ok now I understand, let’s go ahead with this and this.”
On the other hand, if they do go on the trip to Purdue, come home and have time to think of it, but end up hating and rejecting whatever the vets say, that’s your answer.
Anyway … an alternative to consider.
By the way – are there any higher-end western show trainers in this circuit? With expensive horses. Those folks usually understand the value of better vet care and advice. They may shuffle less promising horses off on VV’s, but not their good prospects. They don’t want to lose a potential big winner to something stupid that could have been fixed – plus often the owner is paying, anyway.
Was thinking that maybe if the owners can chat directly with one of them about this, even at a show, that might be helpful. You would just need to find one who is a nice person and is willing to give a few minutes of their time to encourage new people who are finding their way into this world.
I wish I knew one. I know they’re friends with some higher-ups in their respective show circle - what I don’t know is how those people operate. One of the higher ups sat on Mr. SoreBehind at a show briefly to walk and trot around and said “this is a nice horse” but I know that anyone who sits on Mr. SoreBehind would not say that honestly because he is a challenging ride and not in a fun way - the higher up said that to be nice, and encouraging to a newby in the show world.
So, they are connected to people in their show world, but I don’t know these people and what advice they give. sigh
Side note, I just a minute ago learned they just bought a LQ trailer to make showing easier. I am not going to hear any more $$ related excuses from them, at all, ever. Time to pony up for the horse’s sake.
When you say the vet is hugely anti-injections do you mean joint injections or the global use of any injections? Has the horse been getting vaccinations? Or Coggins tests? Yes, vaccinations are injections, and Coggins is venipuncture but both use needles. I am just wondering what point the family’s vet defines as the cutoff for needle use.
Joint injections. Sorry, I should have been more clear.
I don’t know exactly why this vet is so anti-joint injection, but seeing as how she still takes her xrays on film and grossly misdiagnosed my late laminitic horse, I don’t really care what she thinks.
The family is anti anything but regular vaccinations/vet care. I explained to them… carefully, thoughtfully, and fully that something like Adequan is just making sure you’re getting your money’s worth out of joint “supplements”, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with joint injections. Still got poo pooed.
I am going to have to put my foot down on lessons, while offering to help on the lameness side as much as I can. This may blow up on me, but frankly, I don’t particularly enjoy giving lessons so if no one ever wants my advice ever again, that’s fine by me.
You didn’t say what the horse’s breed is, but this makes me wonder if the horse has PSSM.
He’s a QH. It’s possible, but not sure how likely. He was always a little dull to the leg, but I watched the progression of poor behavior escalate due to garbage handling, and with lessons he’s returned back to the dull horse he started as. He feels “shut down” under saddle (or bareback, I tried that thinking maybe saddle fit), and is the exact opposite on the lunge.
Someone, somewhere, taught him that no matter what he did it would never be good enough, and he is not going to forget that.
If you’re going to give it one more try with the parents about getting the horse properly vetted, you could either print out some information about lameness in horses for them or send them a link to a website that discusses the various levels of lameness and the different types of interventions possible.
It may be that the parents are unwilling to be educated on the topic, but it could also be that they don’t know what they don’t know and they are afraid of vet bills. More information from a reliable source (you know, the interwebs) might force them to open their eyes a bit more.
If you also cc the daughter, you may be able to enlist her assistance in pushing the parents.
If they still won’t budge then you probably should stop using the horse for the daughter’s lessons.
There was a time in my area from the mid-80’s up until around 2000, when vets were not giving hock injections. I never learned the reasons, but I recall risk of joint infection was mentioned more than once.
It’s really difficult when a medical professional that they want to believe–however incompetent that vet is–is giving contrary advice.
The only other angle I can think of is from a safety standpoint. Because the worst thing is when a horse who is really shut down to rider’s cues AND physical pain (because he doesn’t get heard) eventually gets so fed up that his stress bucket of frustration tips over and he really reacts against an inexperienced standpoint. So stress to the parents, for the kid’s safety, have someone else look at the horse.
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