Unless he’s winning, he is being penalized.
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I just want to add my two cents and say I really appreciate what you are trying to do for these owners and this horse. I had a horse that I had in regular training and lessons right after I bought her, and I put my trust fully in the trainer who said all her evasions and resistance was because she “didn’t want to let go” or was an “opinionated mare.” Well turns out she had BAD ulcers and was in constant pain. Looking back at videos from that time I can tell how uncomfortable she was and how hard she was trying to be good while also trying to tell us she was in pain. I know ultimately my horse’s care is my own responsibility, but I wish so much that a professional that I was working with had sat me down and had that hard conversation with me. “Your horse is not going to progress in her training until you figure out what is going on and why she is in so much pain.” So please keep pushing, even if it means they stop taking lessons with you. Maybe eventually they will look back and realize you were correct, and appreciate your honesty and care for the horse above all else.
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Film isn’t an issue for me–you can get good diagnostic images with it, as silver grains are arguably higher res than pixels.
But, given your other info, I’d guess this DVM is uncomfortable with joint injections.
No sin. When I was actively practicing, I’d often refer to a local colleague with a reputation for being an excellent “leg man”.
Unfortunately, sounds as though you don’t have that luxury.
(Sitting here in my decrepitude, I am amazed at the current equine veterinary situation. I recall rumblings from equine vets when I was a student that there were too many people wanting to go into equine practice, and there would be problems from that!)
As for what to do, I think Sascha said it well.
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He’s top 4 now. Before lessons he had regressed to not placing in anything they put him in, and not completing patterns because of gate/ring sourness.
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Congrats to you for getting them this far. Still, top 4 is not top 3 or 2 or 1. Maybe that perspective will help motivate them. Do they want to spend all that money and never really get in the money. Is he placing high enough to get AQHA points? If memory serves, and the rules haven’t changed, he’d need to be 4th in a class of 15 horses to get 1/2 point. (anyone please correct me on this if I’m wrong)
Where I board, there’s an older lady with an old horse who is very uncomfortable and frankly, I would have ended his pain a year or so ago. The other day she wanted me to watch her lunge him, I just said, “please don’t make him trot for me, I can’t watch it.” This poor guy is so sore all over there isn’t one obvious lameness.
Good for you for standing your ground on this.
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Give it one last shot and then walk away for your own good name’s sake.
We are judged by the company we keep.
Over my long life with horses, I’ve been extremely fortunate to be given the opportunity to own some really nice ones that I wouldn’t normally have been able to afford, not because of my riding skills, which are average at best, but because I am known to be a good and conscientious horse owner.
Word gets around. You don’t want the (unwarranted) reputation of being the person who continued to work a lame and unhappy horse.
(FWIW, I’m thinking PSSM too.)
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I don’t think they’re showing breed? I honestly don’t pay too much attention to their showing, I don’t often watch them show (they knew this arrangement when they started with me, plus who wants a breeches and tall boots trainer at a ranch show LOL). I know there are 4 judges judging simultaneously. They each give a placement. The classes are monstrous, so whatever they’re showing in is very popular.
She’s still showing youth mostly, with some open classes.
Convincing SoreBehind to do anything promptly without having to harass him or cue “loud” has always been his issue. Every ride, you start from the beginning on that - our warm ups are always transition-focused, and using our “inside voice” cues and expecting/enforcing a response from him. I think the reason she’s not higher placed is that the horse does not having a flying change, honestly. She’s a pretty rider, dressed nicely, horse and rider totally look the part for ranch classes.
His soreness is showing up in the trappy looking left lead depart, and his bitchiness when you ask. It’s also there when she asks him to extend at any gait, he’s very reluctant. I can see the lameness at both the jog and the “extended trot” they do, so it’s there and it’s getting worse.
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Would this show up exclusively under saddle? On the lunge he is totally fine, almost TOO forward. He’s dull bareback as well, so I’m not thinking saddle fit (plus, they put a different saddle on him once and WOO BOY HOWDY did he make it known he did not appreciate that!!)
Good question to which I don’t have a good answer! I’ve only had the one suspected PSSM horse and it was more than my life was worth to try and lunge him… Someone else may be able to chime in.
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If the people you are giving lessons to do not respect your opinions enough to take your advice, you are wasting your time and damaging your reputation by continuing with a horse who is not fit to be doing the work being asked of him. Because you know where the blame will be shifted to when the chit hits the fan… You. It’s their horse, and their decision what they want to do with the horse, and who they want to listen to for advice. Make your life easier by severing the relationship sooner rather than later. Because you can’t help this horse.
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I’m going to see how a serious sit down goes with them Wednesday. If I’m still getting the push back and defiant ignorance, I will do exactly as you state and walk away from this.
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It sounds like they’re maybe showing ARHA based on the types of classes and trailer in, what I presume to be, trail. I can PM you with some of the trainers in the area if they’re looking for a connection or guidance.
Maybe hearing it from someone who is invested in their circuit would be the final straw to motivate them.
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Yes please, though I don’t know exactly how to reach out. I know they’re friends with a fella named Lance, and I believe he’s a big wig of some type. Does that ring a bell?
Also, a PSSM hair test is very cheap and easy. Worth ruling out at least PSSM1.
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I don’t know him personally. I’ll PM you, I’m not in your state, but there’s a lot of overlap.
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If you take him to Purdue, do you have confidence they will they see the lameness during the exam? If so, I might say to them, I see lameness, you thought you saw lameness, let’s get an opinion from Dr at Purdue. I would not mention injections again. That will put them off. I would just remind them that riding is a team sport, and the human half of the team needs to be completely responsible with the care of the horse half; if you ignore the horse half’s lameness, you may not have a horse to show. Let Dr at Purdue find out what they find and if injections or any other treatments are recommended, then let that Dr explain it to them.
I think a lot of people who are new to the suggestion of injections are very nervous or intimidated by them. Especially if they have heard from their first vet that they are “bad” (or whatever the vet said). It’s that whole first impression thing, they probably won’t forget what that vet said, maybe they need to hear from another vet?
Good luck and thank you for trying to get this horse treatment.
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That is progress, however small. Did they notice or did you see a difference after the chiropractic appointment?
Perhaps you could start there? Mention how it benefited him, how he is an athlete who is carrying their DAUGHTER, their most important asset in life — don’t they want him feeling his best so he can do his best, etc etc?
How assertive are you verbally in real life? Do you know if you come across as someone who can brook no quarter?
One of the most transformative discussions I had as a teenager was with my then-trainer. She saw something she didn’t like — and she came down for a CTJ I’d never received before. It affected me profoundly because prior to that she had always been kind — but it really opened my eyes and in many ways made me a much better person. Perhaps you can have the same impact in your own situation using your most assertive voice.
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I’m known as someone who is very blunt, who you wouldn’t want to cross - particularly when it comes to the care of my animals.
Even my lessons with this girl are blunt. I don’t mince words. “That was terrible, and it’s because you did XYZ. Show me again, you know how to do this, I shouldn’t have to remind you how.” Or “how many times do I have to remind you what shape a circle is, and to look up and make a plan on how to ride it?”
Of course there is TONS of praise in there too, but when rider errors are foolishly made, I call her on it.
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I guess I just need to turn that bluntness towards this situation. I thought I already had, but I can crank it up more, and put my foot down with “no more lessons until this is resolved”, using the show seasons looming timing as leverage.
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No advice other than what has already been said but I would LOVE you as a trainer.
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