Need Advice on Aloof Foal - Update Post 19

[Sporthorse_Shop]

So, I may have been spoiled by the colt I had two years ago. He was at birth and still is a pocket pony. My very sweet mare had a filly last Tuesday that is healthy and spunky. But, the filly wants nothing to do with people and I was banking on the baby getting some of mom’s personality. I checked with the SO and normally his babies are curious and friendly. The filly is curious and checks everything out even the running tractor.

I have to corral her to catch her and then she twitches or bucks when I pet her. She will go into a trance if I hold her around her girth and chest. If I have the filly under control, the mare takes the opportunity to wander off and do something else, otherwise she stays within a few feet of her filly. The filly doesn’t seem itchy so I can’t find a spot that she enjoys being scratched. Besides just holding her and rubbing her down numerous times a day, what else should I do? Will she eventually grow out of this aloofness?

[goodhors]

Fillies versus colts are often not so much a pet. Just a gender difference in mindset, not breeding. Daily handling by leading mare and foal to pasture then back to the barn for example, will help. We do a lot in the stall, haltering, brushing, picking up feet, where foal and mare are closely confined.

We just have never done much with foal running free in a paddock or field beyond just petting as we walk by or while haltering mom horse. Never did any hugging type things you describe to a loose foal, which I think might scare a foal! Then they run away, not wanting more hugs!!

Mares can often be more stand-offfish in daily life. “I will work for you, then leave me alone” thinking. Part of that saying “you negotiate with a mare”, which totally different than working with geldings or a stallion in handling or training ideas.

So change your expectations of the filly, she is made to think differently than colt foals. Not her fault or a problem, you need to treat her differently, try other ideas to get good results handling her as she matures. We love fillies and mares here, all our girls are quite cooperative, hard workers.

[heronponie]

Back off and give her time. Model good horse-human relationship between you and the dam, let baby observe. Mauling her with attention and ignoring signs that she’s stressed and uncomfortable are not great footing upon which to build a trusting and respectful relationship.

I agree with the comment above re: fillies vs colts. All of our fillies have been standoffish for as much as 4, 6, even 8 weeks. They become attention junkies later on when they decide of their own volition that humans are fun to be around.

[NoSuchPerson]

I had one of those. The sire and dam were both friendly, people-oriented, lovely, wonderful to be around. The colt was exactly like you describe. Smart, curious, aloof, preferred not to be touched, didn’t enjoy being groomed, not the least bit friendly (other than being curious about you), always had to be cornered to get a hand on him, no matter how much time you spent handling him.

That colt is 11 this year. He is better with me (and continues to improve with age), but still pretty much the same with others. He has to be twitched for all and any kind of vet interaction and will only come within reach of strangers if they are safely anchored on the other side of the fence and are offering a treat, and not always then.

However, he clearly loves me and, as my trainer says, he considers me to be his person. I’ve finally found a scratchy spot (inside his ears) that he appreciates. But, he still hates to be touched/groomed and remains pretty aloof in overall demeanor.

If I walk out in the pasture to get him, he usually walks toward me as soon as he sees me, then veers off as we get closer, then circles around and comes back to me - like he had to think about it one last time to make sure he really did want to be caught.

Nothing I ever did seemed to make a huge difference, so I finally just settled for respecting his preferences when possible, but still demanding a certain standard level of behavior. For example, I don’t spend much time grooming and don’t use grooming tools (like hard rubber or plastic curry combs) that he has expressed a dislike for, but he has to accept whatever grooming I do without trying to kick.

I used to worry that, based on his behavior, people would think that I beat him at home in private. :lol:

[Sporthorse_Shop]

Just to clarify I discovered the hugging thing put her in a trance because I absolutely had to get her butt cleaned off since she had poop smeared all over and it was crusty. After doing some reading, vets can use the madigan squeeze for the first week to tranq a foal for procedures instead of sedation. How I was holding her may have mimicked that.

[khall]

Unlike previous advice I tend to push the issue because as you say there are things that have to be done with the foal and they need to be able to be handled. I never let my foals go out or in without being haltered and led, I handle them to get them accustomed to daily every day stuff, feet too so they have an understanding before their first farrier visit. Having said that, some foals and ultimately the grown horses are just not going to be pocket ponies. Some can learn, I had one that would try to crawl up the wall as a very young foal and yet as a adult horse she loved people, though trusted me most. Some never really come around, I had one of those too, she was ok to work with but anything new she would want to fight over it. Tough girl. I have to say I have not found a correlation between gender and their interactions with humans, I have had mostly fillies over the years with 3 colts and my fillies with the exception of the two were all pocket ponies from day 1. Mare temperament had little impact on foals pocketness, with two of my most friendly foals out of a witchy mare.

[ASB_Stars]

I haven’t found that backing off of them gets you anything, personally. I also have had pretty friendly baby horses over the years.

I’ve never met a foal who did not like having their tail scratched. I’d have my hands all over her, and probably several times a day. Make if fun, and happy, but don’t let her get the idea that she can ignore you. When she is out, with Mom, she is her own horse. When you want to work with her, she gets to be YOUR horse.

[Alexie]

I was very worried about a stand offish colt we bred, we had to go to extraordinary lengths to get close enough to worm him etc. At the time we were only able to handle him now and again, so the approach was very much let him be.
However, once he was weaned, he was fine and became a very sensible and co operative horse.
Since weaning he’s been very easy.

[butiwantedapony]

I also don’t agree with backing off. It’s so much easier to teach them things when they are small, and so long as you don’t give her a REASON not to trust you, she will learn that being handled is ok. I think that leaving her alone will just make her even less interested. Handle her daily, teach her to lead around the stall, teach her to pick up her feet, etc. it doesn’t take a whole lot of time but you do have to do it a few times a day for a few minutes. She might never be an in your pocket type but she can learn that people are ok very early and learn to allow you to touch her, lead her, groom her, etc.

I have a 5 day old colt and we’ve been making sure to get our hands on him several times a day. He didn’t like it at first, but today I got his halter on and with a little help from a rope around his bum taught him to lead around his stall in a few minutes. When we were done I let him go and he came right over to me and rubbed his nose all over me.

[Stacie]

One of our girls was like this. Up and running around 10 minutes after birth. She was a survivor. She is half connemara and we always blamed it on the pony side. We never backed off, but much wrestling was involved. By three months she was lovely to handle, but to this day is very picky about who she trusts. I have had 2 vets who just hate working on her and others who think she is the sweetest mare to work with. She is extremely loyal and I swear would go through fire for my husband who is her rider and special person.
Her half sister who is NOT half connemara, literally crawled into my lap as a newborn and has always been very inviting about her personal space.

[allons-y]

I have a very aloof, slow to warm up boy. I just got him last year, as a grown 14h pony, so I dont know about his foal days. He has no desire to cuddle, but does love a wither scratch. A year later, I think he likes me. He’s still terrified of strangers tho - acts like a wild animal at first. I think its a combination of his basic aloof personality and somebodies crappy method starting him.

I go slow and quiet, and gave him time, no pressure. My DH still moves too “loud” and he’s white eyed with him. Body language speaks volumes to prey animals, especially sensitive ones. maybe you could work with that in mind.

[alliekat]

My experience with aloof foals

I had one last year that was very aloof. Not fearful, bold and curious with other things but just had no real interest in spending time with people. I did very short sessions with him where I tried to make every encounter as positive as possible. At first I was unable to approach him in the paddock without it becoming a game of catch/touch me if you can so I would only try approaching him in a stall or closed environment where I would not encourage him “escaping” from me outside, only ingraining the behavior I was trying to avoid. So once I got mom in the stall and munching hay (while tied if by myself or being held by a helper) I would make a chute between mom and a wall. Once the foal would wedge him self between the wall and mom, I would approach and scratch the foal, not trying to pounce on them to grab him quickly. As soon as I could see the foal was starting to enjoy the scratching, I would retreat. I would repeat this step until the foal no longer seemed agitated that I was touching them. At this point I would catch them to put a halter. Once they were done having their melt down, I would repeat the steps to scratch them so that the most unpleasant part of the interaction was sandwiched between the most enjoyable part. Rather quickly it got to a point that I could reach out and scratch them without finding the corner. I make it a point to always retreat when they seem to be enjoying it most. In no time I have them seeking me out in the stall for scratches. When you are done, corner them to remove the halter and then do the routine to scratch them one last time, making sure to end on a good note. I will also sit on a bucket and just hang out, ignoring them, lots of time fawning all over mom with treats and brushing. Before I knew it I was having breakthroughs where they approach me outside of the stall. I actually found they loved when I used a hair brush to scratch so it was with me all the time. I also notice that sometimes with sensitive foals, people tend to touch them softly, which almost tickles them. I have found a firmer touch is more pleasant and many do not like to be patted.
Here is a video of my first real breakthrough with my colt outside. This was after a week of only approaching in the stall.
https://www.facebook.com/Allieworthashotfarm/videos/vb.100007933800484/1585926578348454/?type=3&theater
Then a few days later him approaching me in the pasture.
https://www.facebook.com/Allieworthashotfarm/videos/vb.100007933800484/1588042108136901/?type=3&theater

Fast forward to the day after he was weaned. We took him off farm to check out a neighboring farm. The bond I built with him is special. He trust me and everything I ask of him and is quite happy to follow me anywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdQz0thVcZE
and just last week when we trailered to a state park and did a 3 1/2 mile trail hike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hagEHHq-ols

The best advice I can give is to balance the interaction between necessary things like haltering, scrubbing poop etc with enjoyable interaction. The good news is I have yet to meet a foal that once they started shedding the itchy foal coat, that the scratching did not open the door to a more personable foal. The goal is to leave them wanting more! Good luck

[Personal_Champ]

My first and only colt so far was a standoffish, miserable thing. His mom is not overly affectionate, either, but will mug you for food. He had a minor carpus valgus so he was on Rejuvenaide and was getting correctively trimmed. He too was bold and curious, just wanted nothing to do with people.

I took a middle of the road approach - he had to let me handle him for things I needed done, feet, medications, brushing, haltering. Other than that I didn’t pester him. Some on here advised that once he started shedding out and got itchy he would change, and boy were they right. He learned that the human is the giver of the scratches!

Today, he’s just over 2, and honestly, is so up in your sh!t that he can be a pest. But he’s funny and full of personality and brave, so I’ll take it. Don’t give up hope!

[Amberkez]

I always wonder why people don’t accept that horses, like people, have different personalities?

Honestly some horses/foals are like that, some will climb up your back, some are just plain nasty. It’s up to us as they owners to adjust accordingly, or at least that’s my mindset.

Yes, I have a list of goals to achieve with all my foals, but I hardly ever go about it the same way! It doesn’t work that way, real training shouldn’t.

I have found my fillies to be a bit more on the thinking side, which perhaps is taken for aloof? My colts have always been obnoxiously people friendly, which I’ve always had an issue with later because OMG lol. The two fillies that have been the difference both had to be highly managed, one bottle fed (shes a complete pet, sigh, and spoiled) the other was a premie and had to have a lot of daily hands on care (she’s also spoiled haha).

I think the attitude is helped by having multiple foals at once - where they can interact in a herd environment and build social skills outside of human interaction. My filly this year is a single foal, I’ll post a photo…talk about aloof :lol: Check out the last two photos

https://www.facebook.com/aezell/posts/1332196580128286

[Alexie]

Good advice, amber.

[Sporthorse_Shop]

Thanks for the advice. I am a one woman show so I have to have all well behaved horses who are flexible due to my work schedule. My filly is going to end up with a combo approach. I had to trailer them to the vet today to check the mare’s foal heat. So, I spent the weekend haltering and leading a couple of times. I took khall’s advice and am not allowing her in or out of the stall without being haltered. She is better and is not so hard to catch now. If I stand outside the fence or stall she is starting to do drive by lickings or sniffs. I will be out of town shortly and my mom will be here along with a caretaker. My mom will take a lawn chair and a book and sit outside the fence to entice the filly’s curiosity. This filly is very opinionated and athletic. I think she will come around on her own time and the 'tude she has now may make her a great competitor.

Edited to add, I am also taking the approach that when it is time to let her loose from my handling, she has to stand and I step away from her instead of her stepping away from me. I think that is helping as well.

[Amberkez]

[QUOTE=Sporthorse Shop;8676937]
Thanks for the advice. I am a one woman show so I have to have all well behaved horses who are flexible due to my work schedule.[/QUOTE]

I feel ya! I work full time and have 12 horses, 2 being yearlings, and 1 weanling this year. And no help, makes life fun and exhausting

It does help to have a routine, I can’t leave mine out at night due to wildlife. So they receive daily handling, from day one they are haltered and walk besides mom with a butt rope. Its an easy transition to actual leading around week 3/4. That leads to tying with the quick releases, one thing builds to another.

Sok one day we will win powerball and be set

[Ticker]

The daily haltering does make a huge difference.
My last foal would run and hide behind mom while peaking at me thru moms tail. I would just laugh and tell her that “soon” I won’t be able to get rid of you!
Which would be ‘yogurt time’. Once they discover the joys of strawberry and vanilla yogurt, well, we become buddies for life

I use one of those huge syringes and squirt it in their mouths. It’s a great way to bond and it also teaches them to accept tube medication.

[Sporthorse_Shop]

Have an update, the filly is now friendly. She came around while I was on vacation and warmed up over the course of a few days to the caretaker and my mom. She also became itchy which helps. She walks right up to people now and is easy to catch and halter.

However, she is VERY opinionated and scary smart. She figured out how to operate the stall gate which is a multi motion task by watching the humans at 2 weeks old. She will not do something unless she thinks it is her idea. She tries to be bossy towards her mom and the horses through the fence. Mom is somewhat of a disciplinarian and ignores her shenanigans.

“Leading” (I don’t pull on her head/neck) is getting better by me adopting the methodology of stepping a step away and forward and letting her move towards me instead of pulling on the butt rope. The butt rope just ensues an argument and sometimes ends up with her sitting down. Getting on the trailer though is an exercise in my strength of essentially pushing her into it, which I am going to start losing soon.

She walks nicely in and out of the stall. She now is walking out to and from the trailer without too much trouble. Are there tips on training this type of personality? I know the wrong training can quickly sour this strong of a personality, so I am trying to find that fine line of her doing what I want without the temper tantrums. With her brains, big attitude and athleticism, she can be an awesome competitive partner and I want to set her up well for that.

[khall]

Ha! I have a 10 yr old that is still this way!! Way more going on in his brain than should be which keeps you on your toes. Best thing I can say and what you have already figured out is to not fight with them. Do have your rules firmly established and back them up, always be fair about it but firm. Good luck!