Hi all-knowing COTH forum! I am interested in breeding a TB mare for an amateur event horse. The mare is 15.2, light, GORGEOUS mover, but leaves much to be desired in the jumping talent department and can be flighty. I am 5’10 and need something that’s taller and will take up my leg so I’m looking for a stallion that will add size and thickness while not getting too clunky. I am most interested in something that will bring to the table some serious jumping talent, confidence, and athleticism while being sweet and even-tempered. I have been looking at Gatsby, Riverman, Jaguar Mail, and Formula One. Any thoughts on those or any others to add? Thanks in advance for the help!
[QUOTE=EAO;7530170]
Hi all-knowing COTH forum! I am interested in breeding a TB mare for an amateur event horse. The mare is 15.2, light, GORGEOUS mover, but leaves much to be desired in the jumping talent department and can be flighty. I am 5’10 and need something that’s taller and will take up my leg so I’m looking for a stallion that will add size and thickness while not getting too clunky. I am most interested in something that will bring to the table some serious jumping talent, confidence, and athleticism while being sweet and even-tempered. I have been looking at Gatsby, Riverman, Jaguar Mail, and Formula One. Any thoughts on those or any others to add? Thanks in advance for the help![/QUOTE]
Remember you may get a carbon copy of your mare including size. If you really need/want all those things on your list, you may want to start with another mare. One that has the qualities listed.
There are lots of stories (I have a couple personally) of two good sized horses producing a small horse. Jump is hereditary but you can’t expect the stallion to greatly improve the mare’s talent.
So without insulting your mare, it is not the best idea to start with a mare that needs so much improvement and expect the stallion to fix everything. There are lots of really nice Tb mares out there with the talent you are looking for and a super personality AND the offspring to prove what they can produce.
Plus you don’t put your mare at risk.
Agree with stoic fish but if you are set on this mare (or just being modest/negative about her, I am one to look at the worst in mine and make them sound worse than they are sometimes!) you might also consider Concerto Grosso for adding bone, jumping talent and ammy friendly temperament. The ones I have seen are big too but not certain about size trends overall as the mares were also good-sized, you will have to ask others what size he is is producing consistently there.
If your mare is flighty, you definitely should not put Riverman on your list. He’s notorious, even infamous. There have been many good things said here about his son Royal Appearance.
Why not consider Irish? Formula One is Irish, and there are others.
Anyone know if Jaguar Mail is ammy friendly?
@Stoicfish and Fordtraktor - I probably am being modest/over analyzing her. She can jump but lacks confidence and training. I don’t think all is lost there 
She is wonderfully sweet (one of the sweetest I think!) but again with the lack of confidence, she can be spooky at times.
Her parents were both bigger (she’s by Reputed Testamony) so I’m hoping size won’t be a problem.
I can handle strong, heck I would love a strong/confident horse, I just do not want spooky! So, Riverman is off the list if he has a bad rep for that.
Thanks for the replies!
I would also look at A Fine Romance.
Isn’t AFR retired?
My mare is by Royal Appearance and a sweeter horse you could not find - born polite - her mother was full TB with serious jumping talent.
Riverman has a huge amount of offspring, going international in all arenas. Royal Appearance has had an Advanced eventer going in UK (Raconteur).
My mare is bold, kind, willing, has a work ethic and has always been good on different terrains, water, ditches, over x-c, etc…to the lower levels at this point.
These horses are good all rounders, not necessarily specialists in one discipline.
Oh - and my mare’s half brother is Irish - so Viney’s suggestions are pretty good.
Tagalean? http://tagaelen.webs.com/tagaelen.htm
Also, there are a LOT of nice racetrack rejects looking for home…that could save you the money and the risk of not getting what you want.
Breeding should be about combining the best of the best to get even better.
9 1/2 times out of 10, no stallion can make a huge improvement on a mare you don’t want duplicated “as is”.
The mare needs to stand alone and it doesn’t sound like yours does.
I’d buy something already on the ground suited for your needs.
I believe in the ISH for eventing. I would suggest Dandelion Diamond Rebel. He is 17 hands and often produces height. Out of my 15.2 TB mare I got a 16.3 gelding who is ammie owned and trained for eventing. I have an RID mare that has produced 2 foals by him. All 3 have super temperaments that are super trainable and are good hacking out alone even as green horses. The 2 IDs are hunt horses.
Foxglen Himself also tends to throw size and has a lot of horses owned by amateur eventers.
You could ask the owners of Bridon Beale Street or KEC Double Diamond about throwing their size. BBS competed to 1* and just moved to dressage and won his 1st PSG level show - so a sport horse version of him should be a wonderful UL prospect.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7530632]
I would also look at A Fine Romance.[/QUOTE]
Thank you fordtraktor.
A Fine Romance is retired but I appreciate him being well thought of. Thanks again.
Without seeing the mare, I wouldn’t want to make specific suggestions, but a stallion the OP might want to have a look at is the RID Steeped in Luck.
He is a beautiful big horse, not coarse who has done very well in open dressage competition, has a very good jump, and a lovely temperament.
I have seen a few of his youngsters out of full TB mares and they are lovely.
Like others have said, hard to give advice without knowing the horse better. And I am by no means any sort of expert or close to it so please do not consider this anything other than a suggestion.
But given your requests for a pairing, you might want to consider the Holsteiner stallion Hunter. He has two sons, Happenstance and High Times, who are doing VERY well in the eventing world right now. He is being offered fresh cooled for the first time in a while. He also carries the very desirable and successful blood of Heraldik.
You can learn more about him at www.w2holsteiners.com
Good luck to you!
I can certainly affirm from personal experience that Dandelion Diamond Rebel is a very ammy friendly horse himself. I knew his former owner who broke him herself and used him as a foxhunter before she sold him. He was a joy to be around.
I like Hunter immensely for eventing, but have no information about this temperament or the kind of mind he throws.
http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_quite_easy.html
I have only met a hand full of foals and a couple youngsters. They seemed very pleasant but every horse has a dam. I think he would add to the power of the gaits and should help with the jump. If your not shooting for the top of the sport (he has some talented eventing offspring) he might be something to check out as the offspring may have good technique which makes life safer.
I suppose we assume you love this mare and want a home-bred? If she has no form over a fence, or is lacking in anything major, then perhaps think of this:
Breed the best to the best and hope for the best.
The stallion cannot do it all.
However— I have my three generations and have loved them all. They have been special to me and nice sporthorse types. My greatest satisfaction is to have brought along my own rides.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7531157]
I can certainly affirm from personal experience that Dandelion Diamond Rebel is a very ammy friendly horse himself. I knew his former owner who broke him herself and used him as a foxhunter before she sold him. He was a joy to be around.
I like Hunter immensely for eventing, but have no information about this temperament or the kind of mind he throws.[/QUOTE]
Having met Hunter, spent time with him and his offspring, I can say that he has a superb brain. His babies are calm, steady, intelligent, and good citizens. Very ammy friendly. Hunter’s owner, Wendy Webster, campaigned him for years on her own. She would be happy to tell anyone more about her wonderful boy.
In Hong Kong (2008 Bejing Olympics) 7 of the top 15 event horses were Irish-bred.
Wonderful temperaments, sound, bold what more can you ask?
Concur with the ISH recommendation. 3/4 TB on IDH are frequently ideal eventers. You’ve got several recommendations here, but be aware that they’re hard to find in the US. Also be careful not to breed too heavy. Be aware they’re like all other horse breeds, some are ammie friendly, some are pro rides - one size does NOT fit all. We’ve got a Master Imp on King of Diamonds, crossed on a Sir Gaylord mare. World class talent, but under no circumstances an ammy ride.
Riverman is, IMO, the #1 improvement sire in the US, especially for eventing. His babies are almost always fabulous; never seen a sire stamp like he does (we’ve trained/competed/bred several, and have one coming 3 year old that’s world class; damned horse is smarter than I am). But I would be very careful about recommending them to ammies - they have great brains and can be very creative, not mean or difficult, but IMO best for pros due to sheer talent and creativity.
What are you trying to produce? My daughter has an Irish draught sport horse by Playland Farm’s ID stallion. He is so amateur friendly, and loves to jump. Every time she takes him somewhere to compete, someone asks if he is for sale. I don’t think he will go above Training, but her busy work schedule means she will probably never have time to go above Novice.
If you want to do upper levels, I would breed to an IDSH rather than a full ID.
