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Need new eyes on the topic... mare is too smart for her (and my) own good. first post and looking for advice!

It’s crazy, isn’t it? It makes me feel a little better to know someone else has dealt with it, because I feel like I try to explain it and people roll their eyes. I get it— most horses aren’t that picky, and if they are, they clearly tell you what they like or don’t like. Or they get over it. My horse does neither. I think it’s because she truly is a good natured horse with a good foundation who wants to try, but then she starts working and the little things start irritating her.

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I fed sweet feed (and hay, and rabbit pellets) to my guinea pigs when I had them in high school (late 70s/early 80s) and ate far too much of it myself. It was very chewy, and very tasty.

As somebody who has worked with true OTTBs, my questions are:

How long off the track?
Are you asking more than her musculature and mind can handle given the immense difference between track broke and “performance” horse broke?
Do you let her have time to be a thoroughbred, e.g. gallops?
What is your background?
Did you grow up on TBs or are you moving into this with a WB background?

It is my experience that the more a rider tries to control a true OTTB, the worse the horse will get. They are born to run, it is in their DNA. They are SMART and want to own the ride as much as the rider. Doing less for longer with time to just go gallop does a huge amount of relieving stress in them. Let them suss out the answers to questions rather than TELLING them the answer. Let them THINK.

What you are calling “bad habits” sound to me like normal track mannerisms that are mitigated by allowing the horse to move forward while using finesse to guide them. Let her rush through gates right now. She will figure out it isn’t worth it in time. Let her grab the bit and then push her forward into a gallop. That is how they run.

The one thing I find with many folks who want to retrain OTTBs, they rush everything to get them sold and just perpetuate the decline of the horse to ruination. Most OTTBs are actually VERY WELL trained. Those who retrain them well recognize that. They use what is taught on the track to their advantage. They don’t think that they have to change a lot to create a nice performance horse. If you don’t want to take the time, don’t buy the horse or just do enough basic retraining you can sell to the next person.

4 off the track is barely mature. They don’t get their minds until 9 or 10. I am not surprised she is challenging you.

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I had a 4 yr old homebred filly I had for sale due to an overstock situation problem I sometimes fell into :roll_eyes: It was during the fall and she dumped a prospective buyer. Not at all who she was with us for 4 yrs. I took her in to the state veterinary school for a workup. They couldn’t find anything … and then they ultrasounded her ovaries. It turned out she had a snowy ovary. Vet said wait until spring. Took her to a local vet for ultrasound come spring and it was a good day because she was ovulating on that day on that side! and that ovary was clear. It was an expensive sale for me. The spring buyer had quite the thorough PPE on my dime!

What is a snowy ovary?

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:rofl: The ultrasound looks like an old snowy tube TV screen.

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OTTBs take patience. They all have holes in their training, and they’re all smart. Some of the mares especially don’t suffer fools (not saying that you’re a fool, but that’s the attitude), and you need to convince them that you’re the boss. It’s a delicate dance, though - you can’t create that understanding by brute force.

I do agree that this sort of horse is better for someone who has lots of time (think years). You’re going to need to spend a lot of time at the walk, asking for lateral movements and circles. The answer to anything but “yes” is to do it again. Things will get extravagant while you’re having these discussions, and you have to be willing to work through that; you can’t be on a timeline.

The good thing is that, when you work all the way through, you’ll have a partner. But it’s not a quick fix, and there will be moments. I also agree with folks who suggest you might not want to spend the time, and should move on.

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I wouldn’t say OTTBs have “ holes in their training”, more that they are trained for something completely different, they are clueless about other discipline specific details. We get into trouble when we keep correcting what they are doing and not teaching them what we want them to do. They just don’t know how. Thats why it takes time and why they aren’t good short therm flip prospects.

Also why they get screwed up by those using shortcuts to force compliance instead of just teaching them correctly.

Just not good sale horse horse prospects because of the time required not to mention they are not a popular choice for many buyers. Right or wrong. Even in here they generally come up as good choices for cheap horses. Shame.

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As a seller (not of horses, but in general) one thing I’ve learned is you have to meet people at least halfway, often 3/4ths of the way, in terms of where demand is–OTTB mares can be a hard sell. Is this fair? Often no. But a sensitive OTTB mare (even without any vices) will be harder to move.

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Do we all have the same horse? Except mine is a gelding…

I am SO not an expert but I have been riding for a long time. I absolutely love my sensitive gelding who I bought off the track. He would have been an absolute rogue had someone more “abrasive” had gotten him. He wants quiet, quiet, quiet w/ perfect fitting tack. [I am a mediocre rider, he puts up w/ me but I don’t know why]. Any reprimand, any harsh aid and you are setting up for a fight. It sounds like he has my number, right? But he doesn’t - he loves to work and work w/ me. When I got first got him, he’d do “something wrong” and then react harder expecting punishment/strong reaction. I have learned (mostly successful) to do nothing - carry on as if nothing happened.

If she were my horse - first, I’d give her time off. Then I would do saddle fit and bit fit. Then I’d start lunging w/ side reins and a belly band. Then I’d climb on (after weeks…) and test the waters and ride as quietly, quietly, as I can and she what she does. If she reacts, it.does.not matter.

good luck!

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Going back to the first post, OP asked about this mare as a resale prospect to boost her emerging Pro status. Not a long term personal project.

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Yep - get that. Apparently her choice wasn’t suitable for a quick flip, so now what? either put in the time or? As an amateur, I would be leery of a professional who didn’t protect the horse - either work through the issues as long as it takes or find a suitable, safe situation for the horse.

My horse would gladly fight me for an hour before I switched him to grain free. Now he’s as cool as a cucumber.

I will echo everything @RAyers said. What you’ve described is a classic Thoroughbred.

Respectfully, you’re doing something wrong and you need to reevaluate your approach.

If you plan on flipping Thoroughbred, I suggest building rapport with someone on the backside and watching as much as you can. It is an invaluable insight on how to approach these guys.

FWIW - I own the horse you’ve described. I wish I could have ten more just like him. He’s the coolest horse to ride and so much fun. He still has his naughty moments, but it’s truly all in good fun for him. You must never tell him what to do, you have to give him the tools and let him sort it out for himself. Eventually they’ll build trust in your riding and you can be a little bit more influential, but that’s not what she needs right now. Ride her forward and let her be.

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I agree with Cboylen. Sell this horse and move on. There are other horses out there and thousands of OtTBs that don’t have these bad habits

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