I recently rescued a 10 yo ottb who has been bounced around from bad situation to even worse situation to an unimaginable situation. At some point this in this poor guy’s life, he was pin fired but I do not know what soft tissue I jury they tried to fix with it. I have no medical background yet.
This guy is a sweet boy until it comes to handling his legs and feet, especially his hinds. (He was pin fired on the front cannons but not the back.) If you try to go near his legs or feet, he flips out…rears, kicks, bolts, and will flip himself over.
He has been here 3 months now and I have been working with him every chance I get: when I hand graze him, when I groom him, while he is eating, when he is turned out, every chance I handle him is an opportunity to gain his trust.
I treat him like I would a foal just learning to pick up its feet…I reward him every time he lets me get close. I have been able to brush one leg and pick up that hoof without being killed, and I can hose his legs and fly spray them but touching them is a death wish.
I can’t sedate him every time I want to pick his feet. We do sedate him for the farrier but I want to be able to safely handle his feet.
Besides treats, moving slow and being patient to earn trust, what other things can I try to help him overcome his fear?
He is pretty unflappable about everything else just not his legs and feet. He is 'the lame. Vet has been out several times to sedate him and can’t find any evidence of an old injury, says that x-rays or ultrasound would be a gamble since he isn’t lame. Other than pin fire scars, legs are clean.
So can you guys suggest some other things I can try to get him to relax when it comes to his legs? I’m fairly certain that the pin firing is what traumatized him. 
I can do anything else except handle his legs and feet.
The pin firing was probably done as a “treatment” for bucked shins.
This horse would be a good one to use clicker training on. You can teach anything with it, and I k ow other people who have used it when working with horses who were bad about their feet.
You sound like a very sensitive, caring and patient person, and doing the right thing. Just be very sure not to push your luck, slowly slowly catchey monkey,
or you undo all your good work. Amazing what trust will do…but be careful and don’t get hurt. Inch at a time and consistently.
I don’t know much about clicker training, but from what I read here it may be an ideal thing to try, if you can get proper advice.
I think you are doing everything correct. With a big trauma like that, it will take a while for him to be cool with getting touched. It sounds like you have made a lot of progress already. Keep doing exactly what you are doing and I’m sure he will soon trust you to lift his legs. Rehab of any sort is a slow process.
I have a 12(ish) yr old pinto mare that was completely un-handled (owned her for a short period in 2011, long story, anyway I bought her back this winter before she slipped through the cracks). This mare would squeal and kick at you if you touched anything below her elbow in the front, never mind from the shoulder back.
Lots of ground work teaching respect while leading, make sure to desensitize to the rope being swung around all the legs (keep swinging when they move, immediately cease swinging when they stop, re program how they react to something they feel is pressure they want to get away from). And I used a long lead rope looped around her feet to get her good with them being handled. You are well away from the foot if your horse has a complete meltdown/or begins ferociously kicking. And once they allow you to get near the feet, then you can ask for them to pick it up & keep the pressure on through any leg swinging antics. (This was once I was to the point she was good with me all around her of course).
Rope goes around the foot (the pastern), I put pressure on it to ask for it and if she chose to walk away instead of give me her foot I would make her work in a small circle (disengaging behind). When she learnt that trying to avoid me isn’t less work at all, she quit moving off when I applied pressure. Next I would apply pressure to the pastern and she would pick up the foot but swing it around, or kick out or carry on in a different fashion trying to avoid work. The second she stopped and held the foot still, the pressure is released and she got what she was looking for.
Teaching her to respect the pressure of the halter before getting to this stage is well necessary, I am able to keep her from running off (if that was the venue she was going to try to avoid pressure) by bumping her nose back to me and making her circle a small one around me.
I had her boarded out for the winter having no stall ready at home and not handled much at all for the last month (May) before I brought her home, soon as she got home she injured herself just below her elbow in the front while sorting out the new pecking order of course. Great, I had never even tried hosing before this point. And the pressure/release with the water from the hose when she tried to avoid it at first, took all of 5 mins for her to go “Oh this is way more work, I’ll stand here quietly while you do whatever”. Smart horse. 
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/s960x960/13442529_10153778506907449_726410924082502328_o.jpg
Good luck!
Good technique from Silver Silence but unless you have good rope handling skills, I would start with a hose. Ropes can get away from us and make things worse. If you are confident with your skills then go for it. If he was on the track he was used to frequent baths. Slowly let the water work up his leg and when he stands quietly take the hose away. If he’s not a mugger and will work for food, use treat rewards. Work your way to a dressage whip and sack him out all over with that. Then you can try a rope. Keep your grooming procedure the same every time. Work with his feet after a certain point in your retinue everyday. Always place your hand on his hip and slide it down to the foot. Let him know what you are doing. Take your time. Stay safe.
How is he with hosing? If he is good about it, hose his leg and then try rubbing the shoulder and working your way down.
Wear a helmet!
My TB was bad about letting me clean his sheath. Jumping around, threatening to kick, etc. He might have been scared at first but now he is just being a jerk.
He responds well to a twitch.
It’s always helpful to know the WHY’S and WHAT HAPPENED? when a horse is violently resistant to certain things. In other words: What caused this horse to be so gun shy about having his legs and feet touched? So…besides all the wonderfully gentle and patient work you are doing, it might be worthwhile to do some investigating.
If you know your horse’s registered name you can look up his racing record on line. If he did indeed race, his trainer’s name (or name’s - if he had more than one trainer during his career) will be listed. I would then call the trainer that raced him most recently, explain your situation (without being judgmental), and see if they would be forthcoming with any info that could account for the horse’s behavior.
You might get nowhere, but it’s worth a shot. And perhaps the trainer can tell you where the horse went after retiring from racing. I would then call that person and so on down the line. Many trainers or owners who liked a horse they had, will be interested in helping you. Others could give a crap.
But through being an investigator (if you don’t reach a dead end) you might just find out what happened, and you can then be an informed owner who can tailor the horse’s retraining with that episode (or episodes) in mind.
The pin firing was for bucked shins-- as the previous poster mentioned-- or a splint. But since bucked shins USUALLY happen when a horse is young and has first started training/galloping on the track, I doubt that has contributed to the problem you’re having with a 10 yr. old.
Something else happened along the way.
For example: I rescued an appendix Q horse many years ago. He too had an extreme aversion to having his feet worked on. Through my investigating I found out that he was put in a cattle chute and tied (for a reason i won’t go into) and while in there they decided to work on his feet and something went terribly wrong (which I also won’t go into) and he ended up flipping in the chute, etc. VERY BAD experience to say the least, and from then on he didn’t want to have his feet touched, or his mouth and head for that matter. Triple whammy.
With me, he did get eventually get over the emotional/physical trauma this chute episode caused. It took a long time, but at least I knew WHY, and through this knowledge I came to find out that he did EVERYTHING better while NOT being tied, and while in a very large stall! Basically he was claustrophobic.
Best of luck! Sounds like your horse is finally in very good hands!
Thirding clicker training. It’s worked very well for overcoming fear issues.
Perhaps a good chiropractor is in order. One of my mares was beaten over the head and had her jaw fractured. She’s always been sensitive about letting me touch her head, aside from haltering and syrining meds. I just had chiro done on her for the first time, and there’s a huge improvement. Her TMJ was really out. Yesterday (2 days after the appointment) was the first time she’s ever offered to let me stroke all over her face.
I used to just sit and read a book near her paddock when I first got her. Being an innocuous, different object gets their curiosity going. Also doing things differently than when they were abused can help when you first start to work with them.
Parelli (I know some hate him but I am not a Parelli nut, ), makes a carrot stick with a soft rope on the end, which has a small suede “hand” on the end. Using that, you will be able to softly touch his legs and feet with the suede “hand” from a distance. If you are leading him on a long lead, or if another person is holding the lead, then he can move around while you are touching him with it, if he is on cross ties, only do it as long as he is comfortable. The rope is also velvet soft. Look up some videos on the “friendly game”, which is basically using the rope and hand slowly in waves over their body and side, then of course after he is used to it you start going down his legs. You can start higher up, if he gets agitated when you go lower down, stop at that point, each day go a bit lower since each day he should get more used to it. Over time, as he gets used to the rope and suede “hand” (it’s much smaller than a real hand), touching him form a distance of let’s say 2 feet, you start closing the distance, gradually, till you are touching him along with the rope, then you alone are touching him. It might take more months or as long as it takes. best of luck and thank you for rescuing him!
I agree with Danacat, not restraining the horse is often key to dealing with extreme fear issues.
I would make small goals of just touching the top of the leg then walking away. (start at his neck and slowly work your way down) As you progress down the leg your horse will be free to leave as soon as he becomes uncomfortable. That’s your cue to also ’ turn your back to him’ and walk away. One thing, at first, you want to be the one who walks away before he moves off. This will help with his confidence.
Continue with food rewards when he stays in place.
You can tell if you are making progress if and when he decides to follow you in the open field or arena.
In my experience, horses can get over their fears more quickly when training is done unrestrained. This is one of the reasons I free longe first before I introduce equipment.
Three months is not all that long. Sometimes the progress can be all but invisible and then one day the animal seems to have turned a corner overnight. Try to remain patient and take the time pressure off yourself: ALL ‘pressure’ is counter-productive at this point, including feeling you should have got farther by now. Chill. You are on the right track.
Re post 11, horse not restrained can be used safely with the parelli carrot stick with suede hand at end of it. She can touch horses legs with it while hand grazing, leading etc, then when he is fine with that do it when he is on cross ties.
Some horses do better with ground tying (not really tying, they just stand there with rope over withers or down, ) rather than cross tying as well.
TB at track are normally groomed in their stall tied in front to a block ring so it is possible if a groom was picking his hooves in that set up and he flipped, or if he had a chain over nose or any combination, re fear of legs/feet touched might be linked to his being tied, see how he is about feet/legs when he is not tied up.
[QUOTE=Countrywood;8746838]
Parelli (I know some hate him but I am not a Parelli nut, ), makes a carrot stick with a soft rope on the end, which has a small suede “hand” on the end. Using that, you will be able to softly touch his legs and feet with the suede “hand” from a distance. If you are leading him on a long lead, or if another person is holding the lead, then he can move around while you are touching him with it, if he is on cross ties, only do it as long as he is comfortable. The rope is also velvet soft. Look up some videos on the “friendly game”, which is basically using the rope and hand slowly in waves over their body and side, then of course after he is used to it you start going down his legs. You can start higher up, if he gets agitated when you go lower down, stop at that point, each day go a bit lower since each day he should get more used to it. Over time, as he gets used to the rope and suede “hand” (it’s much smaller than a real hand), touching him form a distance of let’s say 2 feet, you start closing the distance, gradually, till you are touching him along with the rope, then you alone are touching him. It might take more months or as long as it takes. best of luck and thank you for rescuing him![/QUOTE]
I agree with this, and disagree with the above need to know why a horse is funky about something. Sometimes you can’t find out, then what.
I would think if it as waxing the horse with the stick and glove, or a wad of cloth, something pleasant (not a plastic bag). start where you can and rhythmically approach and retreat into the bad zones. do a little every day, even a few times a day as time permit, no rushing. Do it somewhere he feels safe, like on good ground under a shade tree, not trapped in a stall.
Clicker training.
When I have a horse that is dangerous about his hinds (for whatever reason) I will use a cotton leadrope - day 1 is just gently bumping his hinds with the leadrope, brushing, etc - touching the leg but no asking for pick-up. You want to teach them that being touched is okay and harmless. 5-10m sessions, multiple times a day until you can drape the leadrope (it has to be cotton!) around the hind leg with no reaction. After a few days of this consistency, then ask them to pick it up by gently pulling - once they pick it up release/drop the leadrope immediately and click/reward.
I spend about 2m on each leg and do that about 5x a day - keep the sessions short but rewarding.
Once they are okay with things draped around their legs they are usually much better. Then I might ask to pull the leg forward, etc.
I keep the sessions short, repeat frequently, and then once they are secure picking up the leg I’ll start to hold the leg/hoof – but for VERY short times. Click/release after 3s of ‘holding’ (or less). Rinse/repeat ad nauseum.
Basically, you are going to be doing very short intervals of tedious, tedious repetition.
I had one like that, turned out he had some serious trauma/damage to his hind leg – medial/lateral collateral ligament injury. It looks like at some point someone attempted surgery, as he has a very clean incision scar – he was so bad about his hind legs – wouldn’t kick out at you, but was very nervous and hated them being handled. He is much, much better now and isn’t as worried, but can’t hold the leg for very long for farrier/etc. So it is definitely worth investigating if there is a reason why the horse is so recalcitrant about having the leg handled.
You don’t need a fancy carrot stick but just use a dressage whip or a rope like Beowulf says. Whatever you prefer. Not to hit the horse, obviously, but to stroke his legs from a safe distance. Stand beside him, and just talk to him and stroke his body with the whip. Give him a treat. Until he relaxes. Work your way down the legs. Until you can go all over them with the whip with no reaction, and until you can touch them directly without response.
Had a filly who was a spitfire of a kicker, couldn’t touch her behind the girth, but in a month of daily work with her I could pick her feet up great and now she is just under a year old and will put her hoof on the stand to be rasped on farrier day, good as gold. I don’t pick her feet every day any more, either, but I do several times a week. Horse training takes time and patience.
Don’t get underneath the horse until you can rub the whip all over the legs without triggering a kick. Good way to get hurt. A scared one can be so fast with a hoof. You want him bored with it, while you stand by the barrel safe. Then I start to actually handle the leg, gentle, and talking to the horse. When I can stroke it without reaction, then you can start to ask the horse to give it with a rope if you think he’s still going to kick you. Then last with your hand. You can skip the rope if the horse is relaxed and trusting enough not to kick at you hard at that point but if you aren’t sure, the rope can give you some safety margin.
The farrier will cause a backslide because the horse won’t trust the new person as much so make sure you are ready to sedate for the first few times still and that the farrier doesn’t fight the horse but tries to build trust too. Mine is great and now he and my difficult filly are getting along famously.
You can buy a generic no-name “carrot stick” on-line. They aren’t that expensive. I like to have one on my trailer at all times in case I have to load a bad loader. (My horse loads great but I sometime trailer other people’s horses)
I find the carrot stick type stick has a number of advantages over a dressage whip. They tend to be longer, they are much stiffer and for this application they have a wider tip so more surface area touching the horse. You can apply much more pressure with the carrot stick than the dressage whip since it is stiffer. You can add the string to the loop on the end and gently start to loop the string around the legs for additional desensitizing.
True! I actually deleted my post because I realized beowulf gave basically identical advice immediately above. I agree with pretty much everything she said, even though I don’t use “clicking” to do it, the concepts are the same. But I use a dressage whip. I am sure the carrot sticks are lovely, I just happen to own a dressage whip I can easily stroke the horse with.
Imo don’t buy a generic carrot stick. What will you save… a few dollars? I know the Parelli one has a velvet soft rope and little suede hand, horses love it, you are paying the few $ extra for the soft feel of the rope which is the whole point that they enjoy being caressed with it.
I use a cheap hog stick from the feed store, and tie a shop rag to it, and if I want a string, well, i’ve got string.
