foal was born in field while we were at a movie. We got home at 1pm and it was standing in the field with mom. We got it in the barn. Fooling stall is 12 x 24. Foal has nursed, peed, pooed, and slept standing up. It is now almost 7 and the little guy still hasn’t laid down. Longest I’ve seen before is 2 hours. Anyone else run into this? What did you do?
Sometimes they won’t go down because they can’t figure out the coordination to, or don’t feel safe that they can get back up, and you have to help them down so they can sleep.
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I have had the same thing on a few occasions. The best thing to do is have someone help you ease the foal down so it can sleep. First one we did this with fell asleep immediately. We had to help a few go down for several times until they “Get” it!! Works very well. I have seen it happen more often with colts.
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I agree, give the little one a hand at laying down. He does not understand how to work those long legs yet.
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Would the Madigan Foal Squeeze method help to lay the foal down without a struggle? Forcing a foal to bend it’s legs can cause injuries.
www.equineneonatalmanual.com/foalsqueezing
OP watch all the videos, and pay careful attention to how to place the rope.
Well I owe everyone an update. Was a busy weekend. The vet came at 11 that night for the neonate exam. All was good there. She advised against helping him down as we had a anxious maiden mare that would get highly upset if we mess with her foal too much. She said eventually he would fall down and the stall was big and well bedded with straw so not a problem.
at 7:30 am foal had still not laid down and daughter let mother and son out in to paddoock. He galloped around to his mother’s dismay but no lay down. Back in the stall at 8:30. Finally at 10 am he laid down. Now he is getting up and down with ease. This has all be quite an experience I’ve had some take as long as 4 hours to get down (ironically it was one that popped up with no effort at 20 minutes.) but never one that took 23 hours. approx.
So he is fine now mom is fine despite having pushed out a foal that the vet said was quite large for her.
I’ll definately bookmark this thread and try the Madigan Foal Squeeze next time. Thanks every one.
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I don’t know that the Madigan squeeze has any value for something like this. It’s an active foal whose body can do all the right things, you don’t want to be reversing his system. It’s not about what his body can do in terms of functioning properly. It’s about what his mind thinks he can or can’t do.
Glad to hear he finally figured it out.
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Totally agree with JB and what she just posted. Easing them down work very well.
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Not trying to be snarky, couple of questions. He was born at 1 in the afternoon a very convenient part of the day. Unless the weather was bad why did you bring him in? IME it is much easier for a new born, young foals in general to get up and down on grass than straw. Much better “purchase” and no walls to run/fall into. Plus stalls can and do have “germ” issues.
The vet didn’t check the foal until 11 pm. 10 hours after foaling a couple of hours outside the “safe window” to check “blood” to make sure the mare’s colostrum did it’s job. IMO and experience would have been better off saving the vet fees and have the blood work done the next day to get a really accurate count. If “things” were low and a blood transfusing is needed you will know exactly what is needed.
Have foaled lots of mares, lots. Only had 1 foal that needed a “transfusion”. Her blood work was on the low side of things but acceptable several hours after foaling. To be on the safe side we checked again 2 days later.
“Snap Test” are good to have on hand if a vet isn’t. But not always accurate. Had 2 that came up “low”. Drew blood and had it checked at the lab. The “numbers” were more than acceptable.
After ours foal they go out with in hours and stay out unless the weather is miserable.
Unless the foaling person is very much on the small side of things and or has little to no experience handling foals. This should be totally unnecessary. I have never had to “restrain” a foal with anything other than my gentle arms. Post birth vet check, pull blood, give transfusion, antibiotics, etc. Even when we needed to lay the little bugger down.
These are not things that can be learned from video. Most things horse aren’t. IMO anybody that really wants to learn “horses” soup to nuts should seek out a farm that will take them under their wing. Offer to work for free until they show their value.
Nothing is more valuable in the world of horses than hands on experience working with a skilled mentor.
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I agree.
I was not suggesting the Madigan Foal Squeeze as a restraint method, but as a way for the foal to be laid down gently in a manner that could be done by one or two people and that would not escalate to a wrestling match, as that can upset the mare.
OP, glad all is well 
If you have any inclination to use the Madigan Method, it would be best to discuss it (and if possible learn to do it) with your vet at a time when there is no urgent need to use it.
Why would one use a Madigan Squeeze on a foal who’s just too busy and unsure of laying down? The goal isn’t to “knock him out”, to make him go to sleep, the only goal in the OP’s case is to show him that he CAN lay down and therefore can get back up. I’d bet if he’d been laid down at the 7, 8, 10,12 hour mark, he’d have realized how amazing it was and gone right to sleep even if for a short while.
Certainly by 11pm, the vet would have been fully capable of helping lay the foal down, and it would have involved a much shorter interaction than the Squeeze, and apparently time “messing around” with the foal was already the vet’s concern.
It makes me wonder why the vet didn’t just tranq the mare a little to quiet her down. Clearly the foal needed a wellness check and a blood draw, and that involves more restraint of the foal than laying him down.
This is a much better article on the purpose of the Madigan Squeeze
http://equimanagement.com/news/madigan-foal-squeeze-procedure-neonatal-maladjustment-syndrome-27269
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@JB The reason I suggested it is…
Several posters suggested ‘helping the foal to lay down’ and If a foal is uncooperative, and determined to stay on it’s feet the Madigan Squeeze is a simple way to get the foal to the ground without an extended wrestling match.
The MS has evolved from vets noticing that if ‘hugged’ tight enough in a certain way a foal goes limp and collapses.
The MS is an appropriate technique to use for the purpose of laying a foal down without drugs (if the folks implementing it know what they are doing). I have witnessed 2 incidents of grown horses collapsing when their girths were too tight and triggered the same response as the MS.
Instead of following all the advice in posts #2 #3 #4 to ‘help the foal lay down’ ( and those posters gave no advice on how to actually accomplish the task) the OP followed her vet’s great advice to leave mare and foal alone.
I don’t think your link is ‘better’, it is just one of the many applications for the MS technique.
Fair enough.
However, I still maintain that if the vet felt the mare was too upset for the relatively small bit of effort and time for TWO people to lay down a newborn foal, yet somehow not upset enough to allow the foal to be handled for a wellness check (and I DO hope that blood was drawn for an IgG test), why not just sedate the mare enough to take the edge off so they could take 2 minutes to lay the foal down?
Even if he didn’t want to sleep and jumped right up, mission accomplished - he was down, he figured out how to get up, and he’d be pretty unlikely to resist laying down for a nap for nearly 23 hours.
It shouldn’t have been such a complicated or drawn out situation, IMHO, and the vet should have been very capable of helping the foal lay down, especially with help, if it was deemed necessary. If the vet felt things were just fine and was happy and ok to have the foal just fall down out of exhaustion, then there’s that. Either way, the MS is just a complicated way to get a foal down.
The goal was never to induce sleep. It was merely to get the foal down, so he would realize he could get back up.
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I’ve had a lot of foals over the years…usually tall ones…several that had difficulty learning how to lie down…Each one we gently put down on the ground seem “Damned” grateful for the help. They aren’t given directions on what to do when they are born…I would never let a newborn stay standing for THAT long. And I have never had one jump back up either, when he was allowed to lie down and sleep. I’d have my doubts about that vet. JMO
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I have definitely flopped a few of them to the ground when they were dead on their feet. There is a learning curve to figuring out how to do it but it’s not that hard. It’s sort of a one arm around the chest, one around the butt, lift and bend knee to knock legs out from under them. Never had to do it more than 3-4 time until they took over on their own but it was definitely necessary.
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I respectfully think you missunderstand the whole Madigan Squeeze, and your advises to me sounds very dangerous. First off, it would be useless in that circumpstances. It is a common thing for foals not to be comfortable to lie down because they feel insecure, and in this specific case, the foal seemed to show absolutely no signs of a dummy foal syndrom. This technique is rather new and shows some promess. However, it is a manipulation that can be very dangerous as you “squeeze” the foal’s rib cage where its heart and lungs are located. It is not all about where to put the roap, it is also about knowing the safe limits of the strenght you can apply. This technique is suggested to obtain very specific results, in the very specific case a foal shows signs of the dummy foal symptom. In theory, it recreates the birth process, and should trigger very specific physical responses. It is not a reset button… If required, I would strongly suggest having a vet evaluating the necessity of such procedure and applying it if needed. I don’t mean to be rude but to me this advice could have very dangerous results.
It has happened to me quite a bit to have foals not wanting to lay down, and that can create a lot of fatigue on the foal in the first hours. I have always been advised, after a bit, to help them lay down. You usually help them 3 or 4 times when they show signs of fatigue and they get it rapidely. Have someone who knows how to do it show you a couple of times and it can be done very easily, without any form of pressure on the foal.
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I have witnessed 2 incidents of grown horses collapsing when their girths were too tight and triggered the same response as the MS
To me this would be worrisome. MS generate reaction in foals in the first hours of their birth, but I do not think there is anyscientificbasis that would suggest it could have that kind of effect on adult horses from the sole pressure of the girth. I have seen horses reacting because they were pinched, but if they faint or otherwise felt unconcious, I think it would indicate something problematic with the horses.
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Not necessarily something wrong with them. Sometimes girthing puts pressure on the vagus nerve causing vasovagal syncope. That is not the same mechanism as the Madigan Squeeze discussed here. I do agree that a horse with syncope needs a vet exam however.
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Interesting! out of curiosity, could this theoretically happen to any horse or does that nerve may be located in a more “vulnerable” place in certain horses causing them to have that kind of reaction? I sure would not feel safe ridding a horse prone to such syncope during a course…
