We did test for it. But the result was apparently according to the vet inconclusive, it came back negative but his inflammation numbers were high and based on her findings she wanted to treat him anyway.
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Ok so he was bred to be a HJ, got moved on by his breeder (at 5/6) to a home that casually hunted and sent him for two different 30 day sessions with a pro for bucking issues, then sold to a hunting home where after two years ridden by what is presumed to be a very experienced hunter he was deemed unsuitable bc he hadnât accepted the hounds in the two years, and then you purchased him after a PPE in which a bone chip was identified in his neck that now is described by another vet as severe arthritis and not a chip. Horse has neuro symptoms now.
So you got a neck horse with intermittent bucking issues and neuro symptoms? None of which have resolved with neck injections and Marquis. Is that about the gist of it?
How recent are your neck images?
I agree that a full new work up at a big name clinic is the best choice, I can also understand if the price tag of such isnât an option.
Perhaps paying for a KS / neck malformation expert do a consultation on your horseâs neck images would be an intermediate step pending images are recent and of good enough quality?
I still think itâs very possible that this horse has had one underlying issue itâs whole life and itâs simply coming to a head now.
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Curious about what you mean by âinflammation numbersâ. Can you be specific about precisely what was high?
Treating without testing (or with an equivocal result) is not necessarily wrong. The âgold standardâ would be testing CSF, which is invasive and can be risky with a neurological horse, and even this is not always accurate. Blood tests for EPM are unreliable and sometimes treatment, if fiscally reasonable, is a better way to rule out the diagnosis.
OP, I unfortunately have quite a bit of experience with neurological horses, of various causes (from common causes like EPM and spinal arthritis as well as rarer causes like brainstem tumors). I would urge you to keep in mind that weakness/undermuscling/lack of strength- however you want to brand it- is, in itself, a symptom. Healthy horses who are on reasonable diets do not struggle to build muscle. A healthy horse should maintain some degree of muscle just hanging out in a field, especially if they have been working most of their adult life and have some kind of base fitness. I have rarely met a horse with specific issues attributed to âweaknessâ that were not eventually found to be caused by an underlying lameness or disease.
I would take the horse to Tufts, or ship him to New Bolton. An ambulatory veterinarian is not going to have the diagnostic tools in their truck to get you the answers you need. Donât forget that vets are not omniscient (and diagnostics are not flawless) but itâs time to get him properly worked up in a place that has the resources to do so.
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thatâs pretty much it, he was not a masters horse all the time, he wasnât working with the hounds so he was taken over by the masters daughter, the person I bought him from, and she rode him away from the hounds and he was fine. They needed to move him on to get a proper, seasoned masters horse for the master. At the time of purchase, the PPE vet stated the bone chip was there, and that it was very small and did not impede him at all. The vet said in the future (like 5-10 years down the road (depending on work load) it should be re-evaluated. He passed the neuro completely clear, and the PPE overall with denotations to the bone chip. The conflicting vet analysis is up in the air, I donât know what either a bone chip or arthritis looks like on a neck x ray myself so I will be looking into it with a different vet. I did not buy him knowing he had intermittent bucking issues, when he first arrived at the people I bought him from, he came with a bucking issue as disclosed by that sale but it had not arisen for them, except for that first ride. It was deemed to have been behavioral and he got over it. What I have leaned about his past, I discovered after a few months of owning him. I think there is something, but its just a case of finding it.
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the test came back negative for EPM and lyme, his vitamin e levels were also low, we are supplementing this, but his inflammation number was a 35 on the test and that was described as âslightly elevatedâ. I should not have said high, I did not mean it to sound like it was very high.
muscle wasting does concern me, but he also doesnt get to have a large paddock to go out in and stretch his legs. they are ok, but they are smaller than what I would want. He doesnt have much opportunity to build muscle himself because of that. But I do think his BC is less than ideal
I meant more what specific value you were referring to for inflammation- SAA?
Even in a smaller paddock, a healthy horse (especially one who is getting ridden and/or lunged, even occasionally) shouldnât be so weak that he struggles to canter. Itâs also worth noting that personality changes like acting depressed or disinterested can be indicative of disease. I hope you get some answers soon.
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OP, if you canât get in quickly at Tufts, Fairfield Equine and New England Equine Practice (in NY) are excellent, full service hospitals with everything you might need for diagnostics. I hope you get answers soon.
There may be others more towards Massachusetts / Northern New England that others could recommend.
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Myhre Equine Clinic in Rochester, NH is very highly regarded. And I believe more affordable than Fairfield Equine.
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Just wanna say that Iâm sorry youâre going through this! It sounds like youâre doing your best and I hope you can figure out a good plan to move forward soon. 
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Go straight to Tufts or somewhere there is a boarded Internal Medicine vet who has a background in neurology. In New England, that place is Tufts. Having recently tried to piece together a young horse with a variety of seemingly unrelated symptoms including weakness, intermittent behavioral issues, intermittent lameness, tripping, etc, it turned out the horse had EDM⊠and suddenly all of the pieces made sense in the context of that diagnosis.
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I commented on the other thread, but I will also comment here.
Youâre within a couple hours of Tufts? You need to reach out to them. The neck arthritis can potentially explain a lot of the symptoms.
Please do so sooner rather than later before you or someone handling him gets hurt.
I know exactly what it is like to see it happen slowly and want to trust the professionals around you to steer you correctly. Youâve done the Marquis course that many of us did not think was going to be the magic bullet from the last thread and heâs still neuro. Itâs time to look to vets that specialize in neuro issues - because at the root, most of his issues are neuro - toe dragging, canât hold a corner, occasionally canât walk straight, bucking, etc⊠one of them can have a single physical reason, but youâve got to start considering it as a whole, not just several individual, not connected issues.
Iâm not judging you, Iâm really not. Iâm the poster child for been there, done that, have the t shirt. You very clearly love this horse and want the very best for him and are willing to spare no expense.
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^ What they said. Also, stop letting the trainer ride in an ill-fitting saddle. Itâs not helping his back pain and if heâs truly neuro, itâs too dangerous for the trainer. Stick to handwalking until you can get a proper evaluation, and even on the ground be careful and consider wearing a helmet.
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I think so as well, clearly something is off about him and we will do our best to figure it out. Thank you so much for your insight and addition to the conversation, I really appreciate it!
good to know, thank you for including the link!
thanks for the other names, I will look into those as well!
Me too, I feel like I did my best to work with the vet but it backfired and it seems to have done nothing for him physically in terms of fixing or alleviating anything and yet he seems to be depressed now to boot. Fingers crossed, I just love him so muchđ„ș
OP, please donât get discouraged by the type of advice youâre getting here. When it comes to diagnosing horses, thereâs a lot that many of us would have done in retrospect had we come iinto such situations armed with the knowledge that we gained while going through them. The posters here are trying to share that experience with you.
I, too, have been in a situation where something was off with my horse and I thought that I was making the right decision in going with the FEI vet. Turned out that the FEI vet had developed a habit of injecting absolutely every part of the body possible rather than diagnosing and treating underlying problems, which I only found out later. I took her advice and started out with injecting the hocks. I wonât go into the full details, but following the injections my mare worsened drastically and when I finally convinced the FEI vet to come back out, she refused to even touch my mare and told me that she wasnât worth attempting to diagnose (no exaggeration).
In retrospect, I wish I had instead hauled my mare to the vet I trust (I hadnât used her originally since we had moved barns into another province where she wasnât licensed) and gotten a referral to the vet hospital for a full work up ASAP.
As it happened, thanks to Covid and an equine influenza outbreak, once my trusted vet referred us, appointments at the hospital were months behind schedule, and over the months we waited, the delays and damage done as a result of trying the joint injections resulted in it being too late to save her. I got a call giving me an appointment at the vet hospital a week after I put her down.
Please, please make an appointment with Tufts ASAP. Sometimes you canât get in to vet hospitals right away, and delays can cause irreversible damage.
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how was he diagnosed? I thought EDM could only be diagnosed from a narcropsy, or an after death examination. I would be interested in knowing more about what you went through. EDM has unfortunately stayed in the back of my mind since I discovered and learned about it from a poster on the other thread. If you want to share anything about what you experienced/saw I would greatly appreciate it either on here or PM.
Thank you, I really appreciate your insight and suggestions. I guess I just feel like its all been a lot for nothing at this point. The buck has been present, not frequent but still there, since he was backed. Spinal scoliosis was mentioned as well, that unlike arthritis can be present from birth. I start these threads because other peopleâs experiences and suggestions matter a lot and provide very valuable insight for me. Thanks again!
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