Neurology or bad balance?

[sapvi]

I am very worried about my young horse. I’ve found similar question here and it didn’t have good ending. Note that I’m trying to get a specialist for a check but it’s tricky in a country where I live.

My horse is 3. I observe random balance issues that bother me. I’m confused if he has really not great balance (as I myself for sure…) or some neuro issues. But at same time he has a lot of improvements as we train in hand, so I don’t know what to make of it.

1. He’s not strong and not really good with a “tail” test in walk. But then I tried this test on my other horse, who I have for 15 years and who has normal balance, and he was also not very good at it So I don’t know if I pull too much? I tried pulling when the horse was standing, not walking, and that looked absolutely normal.
2. He definitely has a lot of mobility, like too much. He has very big ranges of movements in all limbs, so I can for example pull his hind leg so much up till he loses his balance. My other horse is so super stiff I wouldn’t be able even to try that to compare, as he wouldn’t be even able to move his limbs more than half a range.
3. He used to step on his own hind hoofs when we started lateral movements in hand. That also bothered me, but that it pretty much stopped happening and he does nice lateral movements also in trot.
4. He stumbled and fell on his front legs. But he was up immediately and it happened only once in a year. I haven’t seen him falling or having difficulty standing up when he lies down on purpose. That happened when he a bit too stressed for (in hand) training and confused between extended trot vs gallop.
5. He had troubles giving legs to farrier. He had pretty weird positions when he brought all his remaining legs too close together or when he tried to walk too much on other legs. But it doesn’t really seem to happen much anymore. He never had his hooves even checked till this year (not my fault), so I attributed it to the fact that he’s confused he has to hold one leg up. I observe no issues when I clean hooves myself anymore.
6. He lives 24/7 with other horses and I didn’t see some problems with him getting around there or playing with horses.
7. But when we tried to sit on him, I had also some doubts (I tried because the things I describe above seemed to really improve a lot). He was super sweet and without any issue. But he lost balance a lot in the first steps. He regained his balance and was able to walk and make some simple side movements with a person leading him in hand. He still seemed to lose his balance doing so. But again… should be normal for horse first time with a person on his back? Or not?
8. He is extremely narrow in shoulders with not much muscle. But also he’s just 3 and of a “late” breed.
9. He had 2 different physio and they said it’s just bad muscles / young age. Still, they are not neuro experts.

All in all, this gives me mixed signals. I’m confused. I watched all the videos, tried all DIY neuro checks and I don’t know. I also don’t know if/when I can get some neuro specialist offline.

Any thoughts?

Anyone thinks it might make sense to have at least preliminary consultation online with some specialist abroad?

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for answering as well.

[NancyM]

Can you get his neck xrayed? It’s not too expensive. Might show something. Or not. Good luck.

[TWH_Girl]

I mean, some of this could mean something is up, or it may well be young horse weakness and lack of awareness of his body and feet while he’s growing yet.

I don’t think an online consult abroad would accomplish much. If you want to have him examined and do some X-rays, that would make more sense.

ETA- I see you’re out of the country, but still hopefully a set of eyes in person would be the best option IMO.
What breed is the horse and is he butt high?

I think he may probably need to grow up yet but you also may want to rule out something like Wobblers too. I’d be inclined to let him be for a while though and avoid any work with him except maybe fun in hand games. Sure Foot pads would maybe be a fun thing to introduce too. It’s a situation where you could go down a rabbit hole or take a watch and wait approach.

[NaturallyHappy]

As I read the replies, one thing crossed my mind that hasn’t been mentioned. Experienced vets could certainly make some observations from video of this horse. The range of motion caught my eye. We had one that just sort of flailed around w his legs in the field and also had minor balance problems. He was indeed neurological-diagnosed at 6 years old. Perhaps the OP might be able to get in touch w a teaching hospital in another country. If OP is asking, it must be concerning to the OP.

[FjordBCRF]

It’s sounds suspicious of something . Are you able to share any video?

The better part of this year sent me on a whole goose chase with my 7yo gelding over what was presenting as tripping/knee buckling. He did have a moderate titer for EPM (which I treated for), but also had some findings on neck X-rays. Turns out, it seems to be the neck issues. Electro-acupuncture helped quite a bit and he’s had no tripping since I started him on Equioxx 3 weeks ago.

[sapvi]

Maybe I didn’t express myself clearly. I’m in the same country as the horse, we’re just not in the country with extremely great horse vets, so I’m considering some consultation from other country, which is ofc tricky without seeing a horse… I see the horse 4 times per week. We do not give him any hard work, it’s usually some mild gymnastics in hand and walks (also in hand) outside.

[sapvi]

New users cannot upload videos sadly, and I have registered just for this question. I’ll try to upload to YouTube maybe later today.

[sapvi]

I’ll try to agree the neck xray, thanks for the tip.

[IPEsq]

A lot of that is within the range of normal for a gangly 3yo. Especially being a bit hyper mobile and not knowing how to balance with a rider up the first times. But that doesn’t mean that every gangly 3yo is also neurologically sound. Taking X-rays of the neck and getting a radiology consult would be a place to start if you don’t trust the experts available in person in your area. There is also a group for ECVM horses on Facebook that has a file with instructions for how to X-ray for that abnormality. A lot of vets don’t know how to do it / don’t have experience with that. You would be looking for things like that, gross abnormalities (chips, disc disease, OCDs), hopefully NOT arthritis at that age, but also would look for steps or narrowing that would suggest Wobblers.

[CanteringCarrot]

I have a 3 year old that’s also been started under saddle. He’s hypermobile, has a big range of motion, and I have no idea how this will pan out for him.

Even though he’s very hypermobile, he has good balance and is really good about knowing exactly where all four feet are. He’s aware of himself and handled things with a rider quite well.

There could be something else at play here with your young horse though. Or not. Being hypermobile doesn’t help things, but if he is immature and weak that could cause some of these issues too. I’d still be inclined to look into the neck though.

What exactly do you do for groundwork?

[sapvi]

We do transitions between walk and trots, stretching neck forward-down, increasing/decreasing the circle size, all on shorter/longer rein, bringing inner hind leg under the body during motion & moving outside of circle with the legs slightly crossing. English is not my native language, so some names of the exercises might be a bit off. We’ve just started adding canter. All this seemed to improve his body awareness a lot. Physio recommended up doing some additional balance exercises with weight switching between left and right pair of legs (horse is standing, I am pushing/pulling a bit, and he has to adjust weight accordingly without moving).

[sapvi]

Thanks for advice, I’ll check the group!
I know vets here do even more common things, e.g. hooves xray, in a wrong way (for example, with the ray not perpendicular to the hoof), so definitely some specific instructions will help to also get some xrays which will be usable.

[CanteringCarrot]

Do you walk over ground poles at all?

You can also walk over something one foot at a time. For example: foot number one goes over the pole. Stop. Foot number two goes over the pole. Stop. Foot number 3 goes over the pole. Stop. And so on.

I’ve also made a zig zag out of poles (so it’s like a path or walkway) and walked the horse forward and back through it. You can start with them straight, and then add more poles to make the zig zag. You can also do this in general (reversing straight and in an L or Z).

Also, turns on the haunches in hand. Turns on the forehand in hand. “Leg yields” in hand.

Side pass over a pole.

Reverse over a pole.

Throw down poles randomly (without perfect striding) and have the horse walk over them.

I do/have done all of that with my 3 year old. I think it’s good for them. These exercises will highlight weaknesses and also help you strengthen them. If it’s just a general weakness problem.

Just wanted to throw a few things out there just in case it’s of interest.

[sapvi]

We were doing poles but stopped (more related to the barn equipment, he didn’t seem to have big issue with single poles, except that they were a bit scary at first). I’ll try to make the zig zag, thanks for the tip!

Leg yield is exactly what we are doing as well, just forgot the English name. He’s doing those pretty well and relaxed at this point, also in trot.

[CanteringCarrot]

@sapvi

We were doing poles but stopped (more related to the barn equipment, he didn’t seem to have big issue with single poles, except that they were a bit scary at first). I’ll try to make the zig zag, thanks for the tip!

Leg yield is exactly what we are doing as well, just forgot the English name. He’s doing those pretty well and relaxed at this point, also in trot.

That’s good!

I’d just continue doing that type of stuff and be mindful to encourage good posture.

Alternatively, you can take the approach of turning him out in the field for a few months and reevaluating in the springtime.

[sapvi]

We weren’t really planning to start riding him, just wanted to have this first familiarity with the rider for the future. I’ll try to focus more on the balance exercises while I’m trying to get someone for xrays. The plan was to actively ride him only after he’s 5-6 y.o., considering ofc that the suspicions about some neuro issue would not be true. Thanks!

[CanteringCarrot]

I commend you for being so aware of your horse though and actively seeking advice! Good on you!

[sapvi]

Thanks!

I used to take this horse on a rope after me and my other horse for the walks outside, we were even galloping together once. Sadly, since we moved to a different place, I do not do it anymore (more traffic around, and my other horse is not very reliable due to difficult past). The young one seemed to like it and kept the pace in the forest/fields without issues. They was half a year ago, would like to have an opportunity to test that again, as I cannot run as fast with him outside to check how he’s doing It’s one of my biggest regrets after moving, that we cannot do these outside adventures all three anymore. I still take them in hand outside twice a week, of course it’s nearly not as active and is limited by my speed.

Our riding “session” lasted only 5 minutes and was the first one, so it’s difficult to say how much (if at all) that helps. But he seemes much more stable even after 5 minutes of adapting.

I’ll hope I’m just overpanicking as it’s my first young horse. (I’ll still check with the specialist ofc.)

[IPEsq]

Those wiggle exercises are good. As well as just walking outside on different surfaces. All of that does help them with proprioception. Sounds like you are doing a lot of good things with him.