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New arena construction base issues...HELP!

Around The Farm
#1

Last summer I started constructing my outdoor. I did a ton of research and visited local outdoors that are all-weather. The person who built them retired many years ago and sold his equipment, but I was able to take samples of footing and base. We did extensive grading (two angles:1.5% long side and 1% short side), installed swales and drainage, removed all soil to clay, which was graded, compacted and then put down 4" of 1/4" minus quartzite with fines–unwashed. The idea was to compact that so most water would run off the top and then add footing when it became available (it had sold out). This is basically how a friend built hers and she can ride right after a heavy rain. However, I had to use a different quarry (trucking cost).

We had abnormal rains all summer and fall and didn’t dry out enough to get the compactor in before the weather suddenly dropped into winter. I had read how people thought letting the base settle over the winter was a good idea anyway, so wasn’t too worried.

The frost is out now and we’ve had rain and the arena base is SUPER soft. Granted, it hasn’t been rolled yet, but it sure didn’t settle! I lunged a mare after her vaccines and she went right through it. I harrowed and rolled and it looks better, but I’m so worried that even after we roll it with a 10-15 ton vibrating roller it isn’t going to be hard enough. I talked to another friend who owns a quarry and he thinks there isn’t enough clay binding the base and we should roll it and use geotextile over it and call it another drainage layer. I’ve heard horror stories about horses hitting geo and bringing it up into the footing–even with a thick layer of stone dust on top before the footing layer.

The arena guy put the same exact stuff down on top of his gravel drive last fall and it is like a rock. He had never built an English arena (builds them for rodeos) but was the best local excavator I could find and we were following various expert “how-to” build docs, so thought we were installing the best stuff we could source locally. Everyone else’s gravel roads are soup and he can drive semis on his with this stuff on it. He only used 2" though and I’m wondering if it incorporated with the clay in his normal gravel? He is wondering if we need to tear it all out and put down big rock between this and the clay, but I’m not seeing how that will make it bind?

I’ve spent over 20k so far and need to be very careful how I proceed from a financial standpoint. My husband is also super unimpressed. He is basically unimpressed with all horse-things in our life (a gelding I bought last fall managed to break his skull in a trailer accident on the way to a boarding barn, because I wanted to use the indoor while we figured this out–so 1k later, I still haven’t ridden him yet).

Here is a video of what I’m looking at: https://youtu.be/z-LSzaOWjUM

Arena last fall: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f…type=3&theater

Honestly, right now I wish I had killed the grass, graded it and put down sand. I’m afraid I will have a nice down payment on an indoor by the time we are done.

Where to start on building an arena?
#2

Wow that stinks. I would say there is a problem with the drainage. I know you said that drainage was addressed, but it sounds like water is not leaving the area like it should. Did you have drain tiles installed under the surface?

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#3

Not experienced here, just an observation. The middle shot in the video looks like too many big pieces, not enough fines. Or the excess rain washed all the fines away/or down to a bottom layer, leaving the 1/4" on top with nothing to compact with. Perhaps throw 2-4" of stone dust on top and compact? (No geotextile).

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#4

You’re fine. Ride on your base. Groom it. Wait for things to dry out. Re-level, maybe with an extra inch or less of crushed stone added, obviously high in fines. Then pack with the compacter and add your footing.

Worst case scenario: a small amount of the top layer of your base, i.e. a small amount of crushed stone mixes with your footing, which would harm nothing and probably only serve to improve your footing.

2 Likes
#5

Thanks for the responses so far, I really appreciate your input. I realize I wrote a long post, but I was trying to answer the questions I anticipated.

jvk8–no we did not do French drains under the arena itself in the subbase or the base layer. Honestly, I have more angle than similar arenas that don’t have any issue and we did extensive work around the arena to draw water away, so I didn’t anticipate a problem. Non of the contractors I got bids from suggested it for this site (one said over time they fill with sediment, even with a sleeve. IDK. This is just for my personal use, so if I had to wait a day after a heavy rain I was ok. That said, I don’t disagree that there appears to be a drainage issue. It is as if the rock is catching the water. When it was just the clay the water quickly drained off. Perhaps when we compact this layer, it will improve? Or we need more height…

mmeqcenter–this is what I am leaning towards. I’m not sure how much stone dust to add on top. I’m leaning towards a couple inches because I can ride on that for awhile. The manufactured stone footing I want has sold out already and they won’t be making it again for the public until fall. One of the surrounding quarries basically was destroyed in the flooding a few weeks ago, so they are hoarding stuff right now.

BeeHoney–you are very reassuring, lol! Did you see the pictures of how the horse hooves punched right through? I like what you had to say! :wink:

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#6

Granted I do hail from the rodeo world, and not the English world (although we’re pretending we ride English too this year…), but this is honestly my plan when we get out to our new place for the time being. I’ll spray to kill the grass, maybe rig something up behind the Bobcat (or tractor when we get one) to dig up the dirt, and that’s going to be my “arena” for a while until I can afford to do better.

Since I grew up having my “arena” as my dad taking the big Wishek disc through the summer fallow field with clover so I could set up my poles and barrels, I can make do with less, LOL.

I will bet it will be a lot better once you can officially compact it and roll it. Now, it’s not the same thing but we have crushed asphalt in our current driveway and we intially put some down WITHOUT compacting it. Big, big mistake. It remained “soft” and we’d basically leave tracks in it with the vehicles. Compacted it and tada, it was firm and solid, and is great. So I would imagine the quartzite you have is doing much of what our crushed asphalt did, when you describe how your horse “punched right through”. Get it compacted and then see what it’s like.

#7

I’m not an expert but have some experience having installed an all weather ring at a prior farm plus more recent experience doing significant grading / compacting material for a new barn and attached “runs…”

Assuming you have the correct aggregates, I think it may just need to be compacted once it dries out properly and the problem is that because it is not compacted, water is sitting on it / running through it rather than running “off the top.”

We have had a ton of rain in Virginia also, and I noticed that our runs, which we started installing last week, are holding a lot of water and are mushy, but I am confident that once they are compacted they will shed water. By contrast, when we installed our arena (using the “Under Foot” booklet as a guide), the arena shed water without a problem once it was properly compacted. It was constructed using 6 inches of stone dust over a graded surface; compacting it to 4 inches so that it was hard like concrete, and topping it with an inch or so of footing. The ring was crowned and water would run off it from 4 sides. No geotextile, french drains, or anything too fancy.

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#8

I think it will be fine if you can get it rolled, then maybe you need to add some. Mine punched through to my base when I first added the top dressing. I drug, drove the tractor, continued to ride etc. It ended up fine.

But for 20 K I’d think you wouldn’t have these issues. If it is any consolation- it’ll get better.

#9

Tangentially related, but might provide some hope.

When we did our last barn, I used lime screenings in the runs, and it was essentially quicksand for…months? until it settled. Once it packed itself down, it was an awesome, solid surface that water ran off of well. But that first block of time was worrisome. I really wondered what I’d done.

I wonder if something similar is going on with your surface. If so, it just needs more time.

#10

Is your arena on a high spot? The angle of one of the pictures makes it look like it has slope in and of itself but that the pastures surrounding it slope down towards it. That would affect drainage. I would ride on it, drag it, ride on it, drag it, and compact it.

#11

@YankeeLawyer , can you use your outdoor year round , or does it freeze in the winter?

#12

You are correct–in the backgound ( which is the long west side) the pasture slopes to the arena. That’s why it was 20k. They built the arena up and dug a giant swale that is twenty plus feet wide between what you see in the background and the arena itself. I think the base was like a fourth of the overall cost. I forget. The grading was extensive. For a relatively flat piece of land! There is also a swale on the near side (although less since it slopes that direction) and to the right they built it up quite a bit higher than the surrounding ground.

Now my issue is no one has fines or stone dust! WHY IS THIS SO HARD!?? Ugh I’m annoyed. I want to get riding. And it’s raining again.

#13
#14

Hi – We moved to a new farm a few years ago but at my prior farm (also in Northern Virginia), the ring was rideable about 11 months of the year. Basically, unless there was actually ice on it, it was fine. I dragged it once a week with a chain drag or a Red Master harrow (though I think the inexpensive chain drag was just as good). I had planned to add sand or rubber at some point but as long as we kept it dragged, the footing was good. I would build another ring the same way.

#15

Are you asking for the right thing? In the midwest, our quarries called it “screenings.” I’m sorry if that’s a dumb question, but rock stuff is SO regional.

#16

@YankeeLawyer

Did you just use loose stonedust for your footing?

#17

This is what it looks like to me also, that the grassy area to the side of the arena looks to be higher than the arena itself. Adding more stone dust and raising up the base of the arena will help.

And yes, you CAN just use loose stone dust for footing. Just groom it and treat it as footing. This is totally fine.

As far as finding fines, you may need to call around. What you are looking for is 3/4" minus sized crushed rock with a lot of fines. That can be called a lot of different things in different areas. “Screenings” is one name for it because they use a screen to get all the small stuff. Call around to different quarries.

I looked more closely at the pictures. Standing water will ALWAYS soften your base. So, fix the standing water problem–I think adding a little more stone to raise the surface of the base above the surface of the surrounding turf is going to be your best bet.

Do not feel too badly about the expense. 20K is nothing when it comes to building an arena. I would save $$ by adding stone instead of footing and then riding on the stone for a couple years before you pay for the footing.

#18

I think the others are right. Not sure what your winter is like but when I had my ring put in it was in the fall so it had the winter to settle. I tried to ride in the spring and there were quicksand spots. I panicked. The guy said to take a deep breath and wait until the ground was fully thawed. He was right. Once it thawed and dried it was fine. Just because the top few inches are thawed doesn’t mean it’s ok 2 feet down and that will cause water to pool.

#19

I used something called “dusty 12” in my outdoor arena to build the base back up. It’s 12 minus fines down to dust. The little chips help the dust hold together and it dries like concrete. I’m wondering if something like that to hold the dust together will help you out.

I had several people tell me to use ag lime, which is basically just the dust, but I had just as many people telling me it wouldn’t firm up. So I went with the dusty 12.

As far as riding on it, if we drag it after it dries it’s WONDERFUL footing, and I can ride in my ring after 6 inches of rain. It works while we continue to level our base but since it’s meant to pack it requires a lot more dragging than say sand.

#20

3/4" minus sounds more like what was called “class 2” when I was in the midwest. Screenings were quite a lot smaller, barely above aglime.

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