New Article on Cesar Parra Controversy

[HoolieB]

Speaking (tangentially) of Anna Buffini, here are some illuminating excerpts from an article written after her debut on Fiontini this weekend:

“First show out in 2 1/2 years for her, I couldn’t be happier."

“Honestly, my favorite thing other than getting solid scores is how happy she is in her work. We’ve changed her training style towards mine which is a very soft harmonious way of riding, and it took her quite a while to learn but I am over the moon with how much she has turned into my horse and is just my best buddy now.

“She took a nap on me right before our test today, to me that’s more important than any score.

“She knows she’s loved and she’s comfortable and happy."

Further down in the article:

Fiontini was competed only by men when she was world champion at the ages of five, six and seven with Severo Jurado Lopez of Spain then Andreas Helgstrand of Denmark and Patrik Kittel of Sweden until 2021 when the horse was sold to Anna.

Full article: https://dressage-news.com/2024/02/03/anna-buffini-completes-debut-on-fiontini-fraction-behind-steffen-peters-on-suppenkasper-who-won-del-mar-cdi3-grand-prix-special/?fbclid=IwAR2yJ-oNp0gMO475wiVIBRQlSla7i6WvUzMgG-_24E0EIP_11NclTSxFco0

[2tempe]

I read this yesterday and her comment on riding style jumped out like a jack in the box. Have never met this young woman, but she may be my new hero. Wishing her all the best with the mare and her career.

[BrownDerby]

The horse was Dublet.

[DutchSonofBell]

Changed “her” training style? The rider? Surely they don’t mean the horse? Horses don’t choose a training style. The humans do. And the implication that men are bad at end is nonsensical.

[Knights_Mom]

@DutchSonofBell

Changed “her” training style? The rider? Surely they don’t mean the horse? Horses don’t choose a training style. The humans do. And the implication that men are bad at end is nonsensical.

Means a diplomatic way of saying less force and gadgets.

[Knights_Mom]

@Debbie_D

According to a soucre, the “man” in the pink shirt works for Cesar, we believe his name is Nickolas Torres from Columbia. This is Cesar’s NJ facility.

I was told it’s Sven Sandbrink and Kersten Kleiber by a Dutch trainer in Holland. So color me confused.

[Helicon]

That’s a good question, but I believe Sven Smienk is from western Canada, so he may not have known what he was getting into

.

[2tempe]

Generally men are stronger and ride differently than women. (ie not all men are bad…) More of a driving seat as an example. And IMO the horses that succeed in the Young Horse classes are pushed more than one might otherwise do with a 4-6 yr old and that can create tension.
You see this sometimes also with the Iberian imports.
So mare has been adjusting to a different style of training/riding after being passed around several times in Europe. And, there is those old saying “you ask a stallion, tell a gelding and negotiate with a mare”

[Sticky_Situation]

It says “we’ve changed her training style towards mine which is a very soft harmonious way of riding.”

The “we” in that statement in Anna Buffini and her team.

“Her” training style simply refers to the training style that is being used on the mare — which is now Anna Buffini’s approach. It doesn’t imply that the horse has any control over what training style is used either now or previously.

She’s saying that she’s riding the horse much more softly and quietly than those who had her before, and the horse has responded to it well not only under saddle but by being relaxed and trusting around her.

[Mardi1]

@Sticky_Situation

It says “we’ve changed her training style towards mine which is a very soft harmonious way of riding.”

The “we” in that statement in Anna Buffini and her team.

She’s coached by Guenter Seidel.

[libgrrl]

I briefly worked for Guenter (1000 years ago, in the office). He was just a wonder to watch with a horse. If he was employing Parra methods, I’d walk into I-5.

[SusanO]

Not to downplay the cruelty to the horses but it is incredibly dangerous for a rider to be sitting on a horse during some of those sessions. And CP is not the only rider on board while the horse is being whipped until it goes up- some of the riders look like young women. Working students? Assistant trainers? I am surprised no human was injured badly.

And what about the clients and working students that might be cooling the horse or hacking out and the horse suddenly and with no warning has a flashback and freaks out over seemingly nothing? Doesn’t sound like safe sport to me.

[2tempe]

Saw another video earlier this evening - somewhere on FB…CP first lunging a horse with some type of straps connected to front hooves; horse nearly falls several times; then shows him working the horse w/ young woman in the saddle, same leg straps but I think the front legs were tied together with enough slack for the horse to take short strides, “teaching” passage, whip included. It was horrible. Found the link…

Dressuur Klassiek

[kt]

@DutchSonofBell

Because people stay quiet, its spoken about in back rooms or people are complicit as was shared on FB on Adam’s post near the bottom…

“I met your lovely husband at a horse show at the Florida Horse Park, as the trainer I was with was being coached by Cesar. She had worked for him in the past and even though she has intimate knowledge of the things going on, still has the highest regard for the man, and to be honest, trains in a similar manner. I have since left her but I would believe she would defend him. Thank you for exposing this…”

And so it goes…

I had a gut feeling about who this FB comment was referencing, and unfortunately, it didn’t take long for me to connect the dots and figure out I was right.

[oldernewbie]

Oy vey. That’s the dressage version of shackles. Guess somebody visited a Saddlebred training operation and thought that was an innovative way to produce upper level work. Very common and not surprising in a breed known for artificiality but pretty damn disgusting in dressage.

[skydy]

I can’t find your link to a Cesar Parra video. Seems as if the facebook link is public but I can’t see a video.
Can you link it not from facebook?

[skydy]

@kt

@DutchSonofBell

Because people stay quiet, its spoken about in back rooms or people are complicit as was shared on FB on Adam’s post near the bottom…

“I met your lovely husband at a horse show at the Florida Horse Park, as the trainer I was with was being coached by Cesar. She had worked for him in the past and even though she has intimate knowledge of the things going on, still has the highest regard for the man, and to be honest, trains in a similar manner. I have since left her but I would believe she would defend him. Thank you for exposing this…”

And so it goes…

I had a gut feeling about who this FB comment was referencing, and unfortunately, it didn’t take long for me to connect the dots and figure out I was right.

Who did your gut feeling tell you it was? It’s your gut feeling. Nothing that you can be sued over. Why are people so aghast about abuse, but so incapable of speaking their minds when they feel that trainers disregard their horses welfare?

This is the problem. This is what keeps people who would like to avoid harsh trainers from being able to do so, the refusal of people who have had bad experiences, who know abusive training practices when they see them, but will not speak up.

It can’t be that difficult to recount your own experiences when you feel that something is wrong. Most intelligent people can do so in a factual, non dramatic manner, that will not leave them concerned about being sued for expressing their opinion.

[Manni01]

Pf…. Easy to say but can be harder than you ask for….

When I was a 19 year old college student I witnessed some horse abuse in the barn I boarded my horse…. so I decided to switch barns…
the result was horrifying ….

This was the most revered Dressage barn in the area. leaving it was a no go…. everybody thought of me as the bad riding jealous brat who tried to to talk bad about the young successful nice professional…. Unfortunately most of my friends were riders … I lost them all … there came the moment when I entered University for lectures and had no idea where to sit down . my parents decided that I was a bad rider and only the trainer could ride my horse so they sold my horse to him . This kind of destroyed our relationship……

So in the end I went to another University in another town…. I lost my horse my parents and my friends over this…and I did not change anything regarding the treatment of the horses…

So….
It was a good life lesson for me though and it took me a long time to get over it……

[Knights_Mom]

I’m sorry you went through that. People are often simple creatures. They sometimes just don’t get it in matters regarding culture. And do not doubt the horse world has Omerta as its culture.

When I first got into horses as a young teen I accidentally came across a loose horse on the street in front of a barn. I caught the loose horse and led it into his barn. Upon returning him to the barn I discovered it had feet of manure all over the place and the stalls were layered in feet of manure. Wood beams were falling down. No water or hay. Skinny unkept horses.

I reported them. They got shut down. Forever.

When I went to the next horse club meeting I was blackballed. Everyone was against me. I was maybe 13 years old. I stood up and gave a speech on the conditions and asked what I was supposed to do.

Surprisingly their hate was short-lived. I did not suffer like you did. I hate that you suffered like that. But you did the right thing.

Shame on your parents.

[DownYonder]

@2tempe

Saw another video earlier this evening - somewhere on FB…CP first lunging a horse with some type of straps connected to front hooves; horse nearly falls several times; then shows him working the horse w/ young woman in the saddle, same leg straps but I think the front legs were tied together with enough slack for the horse to take short strides, “teaching” passage, whip included. It was horrible. Found the link…

facebook.com

Dressuur Klassiek

@oldernewbie

Oy vey. That’s the dressage version of shackles. Guess somebody visited a Saddlebred training operation and thought that was an innovative way to produce upper level work. Very common and not surprising in a breed known for artificiality but pretty damn disgusting in dressage.

I remember comments on this forum years back about how these types of devices were allegedly used by top Dutch riders to produce that extravagant front leg action - Edward Gal and his training of Totilas were specifically mentioned.