The horse Fontenay according to usef is still C Parra’s horse. it was shown steadily - monthly thru 2021 and 2022 under 2 female riders. Then a break from 8/22 - 12/22 when Sven took over. Scores from then until the championships bounced around a bit but they held it all together at the championships 8/23. no shows since then.
Note that the German visitors video was from July 22 The 1 female rider was replaced in that timeframe by the 2nd female rider.
3 Likes
The horse is co-owned with another person. If they wanted to move the horse, that may be a problem.
1 Like
Bolding mine.
The show jumper Devin Ryan was kicked off the Hampton Classic show grounds several years ago when a steward noticed that several of Ryan’s horses legs had been intentionally sored. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/usef-suspends-devin-ryan-after-hampton-classic-horse-welfare-concerns/
By June 2018 (two years later) he was on a USEF Nations Cup team.
So in this case, the Steward did the right thing. USEF’s behavior however, leaves much to be desired for an organization that claims to care about horse welfare.
31 Likes
OOPs I missed the second name…
These elements are already captured (for USEF/USDF anyway) in the Collective Marks for Submission and Rider’s Correct and Effective Use of Aids. And in the case of Submission, there is a multiplier, so it’s actually weighted heavier than the Gaits. The FEI tests don’t break them down into individual elements, but have one “Collective Mark” with a x2 coefficient for “General Impression (harmonious presentation of the rider/horse combination; rider’s position and seat, discreet and effective influence of aids).” So yes, training of the horse into a willing partner and accuracy of the test absolutely are taken into account, however a horse with lower “quality” gaits is going to be at a disadvantage once it reaches a certain level. I don’t personally believe gaits should be taken out of the testing entirely, since the entire purpose of Dressage is to teach the horse how to carry itself correctly, which should in theory develop the gaits. What needs some re-examination I think is what judges are rewarding in practice (vs what is written in the directives) and whether some of the extravagant leg action is really so desirable (especially if people are going to inhumane methods to obtain those gaits).
10 Likes
What if the vet is not the one euthanizing these horses? What if it is the local renderer by bullet/captive bolt?
And quite frankly it only takes one unethical vet maybe 2 (one for NJ, one for FL) to be willing to euthanize on demand for kickbacks on the insurance payment, keeping a large client, being known as the vet for an Olympian equestrian.
I have known a couple in my area over the 40 years I have been in horses that have no ethics. I don’t use either one of them.
7 Likes
One would hope however I feel that there are times that they are part of the problem.
As an example, a horse develops some type of structural issue in the neck that could potentially preclude a future performance career. Horse is diagnosed as a wobbler, insurance signs off, horse is euthanized and money paid out.
Young horse (8 yo) is schooling GP and lo and behold is injured. And guess what, probably wont go on to a performance career. Vet works with the insurance, horse is euthanized and money paid out.
Both of these scenarios are actual situations that I am aware of. Both situations, in my opinion, are directly related to the horses’ training. How many would it take to make someone take notice?
2 Likes
At recognized shows. I reported the incident where the trainer had taken her horse down behind the barns where there were turnout pens you could rent. The pens were not very big–maybe the size of four stalls. She and several people with her, were running that horse around the turnout pen with a lunge whip. It was saddled and had a bridle on and the person doing it had her show coat still on and I was able to get her #. There were other horses turned out. I had to bring my horse in and so did another competitor because those horses were upset. There was a lunging pen also at that time, but at another location. I told the show secretary at that time. At the show with the 3 hour session, I did not really understand what they were doing until I spoke to them. I had never seen anyone go that long and it was in sight of the show secretary. I have seen a lot of this go on in the warmup arena and the TDs were standing there. I have also seen some overuse of the lunging area.
2 Likes
Insurance generally requires a necropsy so a vet needs to be involved at some point. The insurance companies are extremely strict about the type of care provided prior to euthanasia. Lack of documentation and failure to follow their protocol can result in a denial based on “failure to provide care.”
What is more likely is that 1. A different vet is used and 2. There are multiple accounts set up for the horse’s care by which the customer is still billed by the barn, not the vet, but does not have complete exposure to what is going. Such is the case when some items are on the “farm account” and others are on the client account. Or separate vets are used for different services so as not to show a complete history of care. Some trainers create entirely new accounts for horses to attempt to mask treatments. The client receives a bill from the trainer with “vet fees” but the treatment is never explained in full and it is referred to as “a procedure” with no details.
4 Likes
With high dollar horses, I wouldn’t think the owner would be willing to throw the $$ away. My supposition is that CP has a “friendly” vet.
I have been around too long and have seen too many things.
11 Likes
Got it, and I agree
1 Like
It’s not quite that easy.
Typically the authorization for euthanasia has to come from the insurer before the vet puts the horse down, unless.it’s a hideous traumatic injury.
Otherwise the insurer can refuse to pay out.
That’s why they give you those bright orange signs to put on the stall front.
8 Likes
The man in the pink shirt works(ed) for Parra and his name is Nicholas Torres from Columbia.
2 Likes
The horse world at this level is too intertwined as to not be corrupt with deals and buddies. All know eachother and how they train but rocking the boat is frowned upon in a culture that is socially incestuous (figuratively speaking).
Change must be forced upon them.
For shows maybe we need a team where someone (out of a team of people) goes to all recognized shows to watch for abusive situations. Anonymously.
In my younger days I managed a rated QH show. It was during the time where horses heads were being tied up in stalls. AQHA gave us hot pink signs to post - like 50 of them - that said it could lead to all these penalties if heads are tied up in stalls. I posted them around the show grounds with many left over. At that time idiots would tie the horses head up high and tight all night so that the next day, in their western pleasure class the horses literally couldn’t lift their heads.
Being an insomniac I waited until it got dark when all the show people go to sleep. I then armed myself with a stapler and those signs and went around to every single stall and if I saw a horse tied I untied them and stapled a hot pink abuse sign on their stall. Every single one. Thankfully there were less than 10.
No one said chit the next day.
Change comes from 10,000 brave little acts.
24 Likes
Under Loss Of Use on insurance policies is euthanasia a thing insurance company require for a payout? Just asking as I’m not familiar as to how this corruption works.
1 Like
If you are not familiar with it, look up the Barney Ward/Paul Valliere cases of killing horses for insurance money (revealed by the disappearance of heiress and horse owner Helen Brach).
After that scheme the insurance companies got a lot stricter on payouts. Have to be clever to put one over on the insurance companies now.
5 Likes
Almost no one has loss of use insurance anymore but no, the horse doesn’t need to be euthanized for the owner to collect. He just needs to be no longer able to be do his job ever again. It’s very expensive coverage when you can even get it and it requires turning ownership over to the insurance company to get your payout. They will try to get him sound so they can sell and get some of their money back but if that fails they dispose of the horse.
3 Likes
Ah OK thank you.
Which is why I mentioned “an ethical vet.”
1 Like
