CP is a horrific example of what happens more often than it should, across disciplines, at all levels. It wrecks horses, they never forget even if a different person manages to help them become as well adjusted as they can be. But they will never be the horse they could have been, with compassionate training instead of force, punishment and abuse. https://thehorse.com/1121120/traumatic-horse-training-can-you-spot-abuse-2/
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To clarify, I do know that abuse happens. I have seen a few incidents of overt abuse myself and many more that were rough but maybe not as clearly over the line. One clear instance at a show though not a dressage show. I was responding in particular to someone who said that horses were abused at shows after a bad test all the time. I have never seen that particular kind of abuse (and therefore doubt that it is pervasive). I have attended literally hundreds of various kinds of shows across more than 50 years as competitor, groom, volunteer and spectator.
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I have seen this once. Some years ago. I was rind stewarding and reported it to the TD who had words with the rider. I never saw her doing it again at a show I was at.
I have found in our area TDs generally take reports seriously and will step in. But they donât have eyes in the backs of their heads and need to be told if something is going on that they have missed.
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I may have given you the impression, but I never said that there was constant abuse at every show. I did and do witness it a lot. I have shown dressage for over two decades and shown a lot. I have seen people in the lunge pen with the same horse for two hours. I have seen people come out of their tests and start schooling a movement and then drill the movement (because having the same problems over and over). A correction becomes a punishment becomes abuse. I have also seen people not care for their horses at shows and leave them over 18 hours without giving food or fresh water. But your comment does actually make my pointâso far, we donât agree on a definition of abuse. It is very VERY important that we do that. That we make it graphic (i.e. pictures and diagrams and what not) with tons of examples to education people on what is abuse and should be avoided and reported and what is not. I have a friend who is a horse trainer. Another horse trainer in her barn, who has an enormous local following among amateurs, beats horses repeatedly in private. It makes my friend very uncomfortable. She is afraid to report it because her following is no where near this womanâs following and this woman has some very important people in her universe. On the other side, early in my dressage journey, I saw, at a NAYRC competition, a trainer and a very famous trainer, go into the indoor arena at the show facility (a private area) with a horse, shut all the doors, and come out about 90 minutes later with the horse lathered and bleeding. At the time, I was new in my dressage journey and I didnât know what to do and didnât have the confidence to act or even confront anyone. I complained to a trainer once that I was riding with her student and the student was putting whip welts on a horse (who was so shut down that it didnât even react to the lashing). Obviously there was something wrong with the horse. The trainer told me that she instructed the student to do this. The trainer was very well connected in USDFâno one would have believed me if I complained. I have seen this kind of activity for years. We need something in place so that the power imbalances can be addressed, so that the champagne sipping owners actually know that what they are looking at their revered Olympic trainer doing is abuse and needs to be reported.
I have been consistent in this message for a long time. It is not about rollkur (although Iâll drag that into this conversation too), itâs about protecting horses. I donât really know if our TDs do anything other than police logos, and whether or not people unsnap their harnesses while mounted to remove their headsets while their trainer is hanging onto the reins, or yellow card someone for cussing at someone else who clipped them in the warmup ring, or yellow card someone who didnât want their horse injected with something to take a urine sample before their last test (these all I have heard about). ETA: I did once see a TD yellow card a well known breeder/dealer for abuse at a show with a horse and client in the warm up area. The breeder/dealer never showed again, but did supply a lot of horses after that to our elite ridersâŠ
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The reality is we have all seen abuse in the name of training and showing.
I plan to show my horse but Iâm at the point that it seems humans just canât be trusted. And when someone says there shouldnât be any more shows, especially big ones, I really canât debate them.
When (not if) this culture of systematic abuse (it is) is exposed to the outside world en masse then itâs game over for horse shows - at least the big ones.
Only a fool believes the culture of omerta lasts forever.
I have zero doubt of this.
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As much as I hate to say this ( I really have a problem with all the video surveillance and surreptitious recording of others that occurs these days) it seems that publicizing videos of abuse is the only way USEF or the FEI will take any action against abusers.
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And here we go again. Canada jumped right on this it seemsâŠ
MAYBE slowly but surely the doors to be heard are opening.
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True!!! Do you think I want to be involved in this? Itâs probably ruining my future in dressage. I wish it wasnât this way.
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I interpret your friendâs reasoning for staying silent as feeling intimidated by the abusive trainer because the trainer has more clients, and knows important people. For some reason sheâs afraid of this trainer. Is that correct ?
If your friend could have a conversation with the abused horses and the horses asked, âWhy didnât you speak up to stop our abuse?â would she honestly answer âBecause the trainer has more clients than I do, and she knows important people.â
I would bet you that if she confronted the abusive trainer, there will be clients of that trainer and important people who will be relieved that someone finally stood up for the horses.
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See something, say something. Have you reported these occurrences to the appropriate authorities?
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I did not in those instances, because of power imbalances or because I was being gaslit by a trainer (no thatâs not what you saw) or because I didnât know how. I have in recent years and nothing ever happened to the perps. There needs to be a system of welfare for the horses that clearly defines abuse and allows reporting to happen anonymously or at least confidentially. Look how much and how long and how many people it took to get this out in the open and even now I think there will be attempts to localize it to Parra and not do anything larger about welfare.
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More along the lines of the trainer is the barn ownerâs trainer and the trainer can do no wrong. There is a power imbalance. The trainer knows my friend has caught her doing it and has already taken on a campaign of ridicule against my friend and her beginner students. Discredit the witness and it didnât happen. Discredit the witness enough and maybe the barn owner will kick her out and hurt her business. The reporting issue is more complicated than you are giving it credit. It is why we need a Safe Sport for horses.
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The ethical thing to do would be for your friend to report what she saw (to the BO and anyone relevant in charge), document, and leave. Being at this place and keeping silent is being complicit to some degree - but I DO understand that âjust leaveâ isnât a quick and easy thing to do.
Being associated with this trainer and barn (which may or may not have an open secret reputation as being abusive) could leave its mark on HER reputation, as well as teach her beginner students that XYZ is okay if you get results at higher levels and win. Even if she tells them otherwise, the evidence to the contrary is there.
I do agree that there needs to be some anonymous reporting system that people can be confident will result in a real investigation. Thatâs part of the issue right now - what systems are in place are not trustworthy to do their job and investigate. Iâm not saying that every report of abuse should result in automatic consequences (since that would encourage petty and vindictive use of the system), but some evidence of taking reports seriously would be nice.
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the other current problem, is WHO do you report it to so an investigation happens? Much of this is going on on private properties, so the only option is the BO. If there are on- property trainers, they have power in several ways. If BO sees something awful personally , yes he/she can just fire the trainer. But will he/she listen to a complaint from a boarder or a trailer-in student. Different story all together.
SO unless and until USEF gets something on paper that allows them to expand investigations to include farms, there is not really any knowledgeable unbiased option. In most instances, at least where Iâve lived, Animal Control is pretty ineffective unless the animals are starving/no water, etc.
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YES
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This is such an obviously good idea that I canât believe it hasnât been suggested before.
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I didnât mention reporting.
That will undoubtedly open an enormous can of worms.
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How is USEF going to have the authority to enter private property for the purpose of confirming anonymous reports of abuse?
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I can envision the PeTA folk trading lists of horse training/boarding facilities and organizing phone banks to call in reports of abuse.
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I understand the frustration with the current state of affairs, but this will be open season on any horseman that someone has a serious disagreement with, be it related to training methods or anything else.
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I was unclear - I was meaning at shows in that comment. The poster claimed theyâd made reports that went nowhere, which I assumed were within the current system that can only take action at sanctioned events. I can see how that wasnât exactly what my post seems to mean though!
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Ah. that is far more feasible.
From previous discussions regarding abuse reports being ignored at shows, I think the argument for having the stewards/TDs designated by other than the show managers might be helpful as at least part of it.
The thought is, IIRC, that the steward feels beholden to show mgmt rather than to the rulebook, and fears being blacklisted if they make waves, particularly as regards the BNTs (of varying âbignessâ depending on venue) who bring lots of entries to the show.
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