New Article on Cesar Parra Controversy

[Aussie_2020]

Me thinks you are the one that needs to look again.I’ve been seeing it since 1995.

[Mondo]

Well I’ve been competing in it since 1982 and I suggest that you are not understanding what you are seeing.

[Salty]

There has always been both good dressage training and not so good dressage training. In the mid 1980s I was taking lessons on both a PSG TB and a Grand Prix warmblood, from two different instructors. If you tried to “crank and spank” either of them, you got nothing, although the instructors would yank you off the horse if you tried. If your aids weren’t soft and quiet, the TB would run off with you and the WB would stop and refuse to move.

I get really annoyed with blanket condemnations of “modern dressage.”

[PaddockWood]

@Cowgirl

True!!! Do you think I want to be involved in this? It’s probably ruining my future in dressage. I wish it wasn’t this way.

There is no greater courage or bravery.

[barnesthenoble]

This

@Mondo

There are some people riding at the upper levels who do that.

and this

@Mondo

it’s not always the ones who are winning.

and this

@Mondo

As I said in an earlier post, nobody is pulling on the reins.

Sure contradict each other.

And since there’s many things available like this picture and this picture and this picture and this picture and this picture and and and and… I tried to mostly get pictures in competition. I specifically did not Google “rollkur.” There are plenty that are MUCH worse that are in warm up rings, etc.

I agree that dressage done well should not involve pulling. And I agree that there are absolutely riders and trainers out there doing it right. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that all of modern dressage is bad/crank/what have you.

But to deny that it happens, and that at least in some cases, it wins? Even at the highest levels? Come on.

[Aussie_2020]

Yes, that’s what I’m seeing. Is it every rider? No, but there are more than I want to see. And as we know what they do at shows is most likely what they’re doing at home, or worse.

[omare]

So is banging/tapping with your legs every stride considered good riding when for example asking for an extended trot? . Admittedly, I seem to see it more in the dressage tests when ridden by upper level eventers. I find it very distracting, but admittedly I have below base level knowledge about dressage.

[Salty]

I was taught that banging/tapping at every stride is a result of not having full control of your aids. The big trot was the result of the power of collection being allowed forward, not the result of increased leg aids.

[Warmblood1]

@omare

So is banging/tapping with your legs every stride considered good riding when for example asking for an extended trot? . Admittedly, I seem to see it more in the dressage tests when ridden by upper level eventers. I find it very distracting, but admittedly I have below base level knowledge about dressage.

Some degree of movement is usually happening. Theoretically the rider should adjust with all gaits - an example would be allowing for the horse’s lung expansion in the canter or gallop with an extremely subtle flap of the legs. The leg can be used with essentially every stride when doing collected work such a passage to cue the horse. It should not be jabbing and digging and the subtlety should improve with time. Competition does not promote riders to take their time in a lot of cases. It creates a lot of issues with a trickle effect.

[Guyot]

Perhaps we should move this recent discussion of riding off this thread which is about ABUSE! Or should be.
It is really is very frustrating to come here every time thinking there is an update about Para and hopefully find out if all the horses are finally safe and instead read the back and forth about dressage techniques.

[TwiSedai]

I think its an interesting discussion that needs it’s own thread, so linking one here if anyone wants to continue talking about it all.

Creating a Spin-Off of Parra thread: Forward Seat vs Modern Riding

Making a new thread because I think the discussion is interesting, but think it needs it’s own thread. The general gist of it was asking about the forward seat, and then how it’s relating to dressage as it’s currently ridden. I do think there is some merit to it, especially in helping a horse unlock it’s back (and I might look into it more for my new guy who has a short tight back, gets stuck and kicks out). But I also don’t agree that everyone is riding too backwards at the upper levels. I thi…

[Mondo]

@barnesthenoble

But to deny that it happens, and that at least in some cases, it wins? Even at the highest levels? Come on.

I’m not denying that it happens. The posts I was responding to suggested to me that ALL upper level horses are being cranked into a “frame.” It’s just not true. YMMV

[Angela_Freda]

Any updates, anywhere?

[NJRider]

Not regarding this, but he has quite a horse related civil suit against him in NJ US District Court
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://dockets.justia.com/docket/new-jersey/njdce/2:2024cv00279/539171%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwiYktW7o6SFAxUAC3kGHRTiCIMQFnoECBYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1iAMzhtx73tRYW_HcnP4K9

[Knights_Mom]

Most interesting. Wouldn’t mind being on that jury but I’m not from NJ.

[frugalannie]

Might you be willing to summarize the complaint? I wasn’t able to open any of the documents. Thanks for considering.

[NJRider]

I have the complaint downloaded. Let me try posting it.show_multidocs.pdf (6.7 MB)

[Jealoushe]

Wow. So aside from all that other sales stuff, he was disqualified for drugging an injured horse and the media and FEI kept it quiet. Unbelievable.

[K_VanOlst]

@Knights_Mom

Wouldn’t mind being on that jury but I’m not from NJ.

Same! Especially considering who her lawyer is! would love to see him in action!!

[Cowgirl]

If the allegations about the FEI are true, the corruption goes so much deeper than Mariette Witthages.