USEF already does zone awards for dressage (I know I have some). It appears to be tied not to scores but rather to how amny horses you beat over the course of the year - which in my estimation really diminishes the value of the award and makes it nothing more than point chasing.
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ALso, I wonder what federal support the German federation gets? I do believe that USDF is NOT federally funded at all; NONE of the Olympic sports are.
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And yet the point remains. National shows are way, way more affordable in Europe. Regardless of the reason, it both diminishes interest and participation at the national show level and certainly shouldn’t surprise anyone that someone coming from Europe would experience extreme sticker shock. We do ourselves.
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Yes, prices have increased, and yet the USDF and USEF are still around.
It doesn’t really matter what things cost in Germany or anywhere else. BTW, it doesn’t go over very well in Europe when some ex-pat American complains that things are different there than here.
Unfortunately, this is a hot horse that’s never seen an enclosed space he doesn’t like His best scores were always in enclosed arenas with high walls. He spent his first four years of life in pasture. Go figure. In the past, he’s had meltdowns about trail, but with no other option, I’m going to try (again) to persuade him that it’s something he can enjoy (with some ACE, to start. ;0).) I used to be an eventer, so I’m moderately “brave,” but trail riding a spinning, passaging, piaffe-ing horse, not fun.
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Again, I’m not sure you’re understanding.
I’ve lived in Ireland, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, and travelled to shows throughout Europe. I’m confused as to why you think Europeans are upset? Offended? By anyone pointing out that things cost more in the US. Fwiw high and mid range tack and equipment are also cheaper in Europe, I’ve never heard a European upset at pointing that out.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point?
and to clarify again, yes USDF is still around, with declining membership, hence declining revenues, hence this new money grab from schooling shows attempt.
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And arguably it does matter what national shows cost in other countries, since USEF is our national federation tasked with developing talent for international teams to compete against these other nations. When costs are extremely prohibitive, it really does limit the talent pool. This is not the same thing as having difficulty fielding excellent teams, but it is certainly possible we could have better teams if our national level shows were more affordable and accessible.
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Interested what will happen to all these collected schooling show scores after they have been used to find the regional champion?
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What would happen if the USDF membership numbers dropped so low that even The Maestro was able to get year end high score awards?
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Huh. I actually double checked on the USEF site trying to find Zone/Region rankings for Dressage and couldn’t–and I’m totally used to point stalking for Zone and National hunter points, and Silver Stirrup stuff (which I HAVE gotten Zone Dressage awards for) so I look at those pretty regularly during the show year. I wonder if the way they score them, with horses beaten rather than something like points, is why they’re not readily available? Maybe they should consider revisiting how they do those, rather than trying to re-create the wheel.
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Sigh. We continue to “talk” past each other but that’s ok. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
If you go back and reread my post perhaps you’ll see that I was making a general statement about how people typically don’t appreciate it when someone from any other country makes a comment along the lines of “this is different from my country, you should do it our way.”
The oft-cited example is the American who expects everyone else to speak English.
Yeah, you’re interpreting what I wrote the exact opposite of what I said.
That’s cool.
This is more the equivalent of the American who says don’t tell me how people who are better at something than us do things differently cause 'merica.
I’m saying we should examine what it is that the countries who are regularly beating us/outproducing us do better, and one of the biggest things is the cost of national shows and how expensive it is in the US, beyond the ordinary realities of horse expenses, to develop young horses and riders, because our national shows ARE SO WILDLY EXPENSIVE when compared to national shows throughout Europe. (Again, I doubt Europeans would take offense, if only because when asked about whether shows in Europe should just generally consider price increases to be more similar to the US, I think it was John Whitaker who said, nope, all it would mean was we would take our young horses to less shows, and utilize schooling and club shows more, ie exactly what has happened to US national shows)
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Very interested how did you get all your personal interpretations from my post???
Yes I do agree with every word Lady79 is writing but I would never write it myself because I have been beaten up for it here in the past many times… that is not something you write if you are from Europe.
And also I did not even mention that I am from Europe and what I wrote had nothing to do with Europe…
And BTW. i know a lot of people in my area who do not show rated because of the cost. No they don’t show in Schooling shows because they prefer them… it’s about money…
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Europeans have liscensing for trainers, national financial support for the sport, national schools, competitors must be liscensed (and pass comprehensive tests) to compete, requirements to move up or not, everyone who shows belongs to a club, lots of community support… everything Americans don’t want. SO we have a system where ANYONE can hang out a trainer shingle, few schools with schoolmasters for teaching kids, no requirements to move up or not, no federal financial support to make such things as schools and showing less expensive, and little community support because it is seen as elitist.
And you think the cost of recognized shows is the reason the Europeans beat us…
This is an interesting document. http://www.euroequestrian.eu/files/2…_Juli_2014.pdf In particular, Note pages 22-25 and 46-47
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Yeah, me and a lot of other professionals think that the ability to affordably develop young horses (and riders) for sport is a big reasons many euro nations excel, and why most serious riders head to Europe either as a permanent base or for long stretches of the now never-ending show season. Yes, I definitely think that that is a huge reason. And so does everyone else.
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Very interesting document that highlights the fundamental differences between the German and US systems.
In its prior incarnation the USEF was the AHSA (American Horse Shows Association), the operative words are Horse Shows. There is no statement in the USEF goals similar to the German FN.
https://www.usef.org/about-us/our-mission-values
From p. 13
Responsibilities and objectives of the FN are: [INDENT]- The promotion of health and joie de vivre (joy of living) to all people – especially the younger generation – by encouraging participation in equestrian sports
- The promotion of training and education for riders, drivers, vaulters and horses to perfect the art of riding, driving and vaulting
- The promotion of the sport for pleasure and performance in all disciplines
- The promotion of German horses and breeding
- The promotion of horse keeping
- The promotion of animal welfare
- The promotion of environmental responsibility and care for the environment
- The promotion of responsible horse care that will strengthen the preservation of the historic relationship between man and horse[/INDENT]
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i was not aware the USEF had re-started the annual awards. Last I saw these were in the mid to late 80s and they were based on ribbon ( placing) points, not test performance percentage. When did this restart?
Actually, they don’t. I just looked on the Rankings & Results page, and National points aren’t available for straight Dressage, only Western Dressage. It looks like they’re done via USDF, and are average percentage. Not sure why other breed/discipline National HOTY awards are via USEF and Dressage does them themselves, and not even linked to USEF like Zone awards are for USHJA. Makes it incredibly confusing to look things up!
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We have a place nearby that runs a great schooling show series. They are affordable, and the quality of judges, facilities, etc is great. There is an end of year awards ceremony for those interested. I think it’s a great way for the local riders who attend a number of the shows each year to have a little cherry on top. But I also suspect the lady who runs the series avoids working with CDS and USDF, and probably for a reason.
In an instance like this, I fully support that. I don’t think USDF should have any involvement.
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I don’t go to schooling shows anymore, as the ones that are available to me tend to be judged only by the usual L grads and get the bulk of their entries in Intro and TL (last one I volunteered at had 2 rides in 1st level and 1 ride in 2nd). So right away it’s clear to me that the intent isn’t to create a second tier, lower cost showing option that would make a place for the riders who want to advance in the sport without the means to do tons of recognized showing.
Given that it’s only meant to further reward riders who already have a local schooling show option that works for them, the problem I see with this proposal is that I can imagine that some regions will have an apples-to-oranges problem when comparing scores earned at various schooling shows in different parts of the region. I’ve recently lived both in areas where there are excellent, well-subscribed schooling shows that provide licensed judges, quality facilities, and decent competition, and areas where schooling shows are all small and informal, invariably judged by less experienced L grads, and cater to Intro-TL and riders from other disciplines who want to dabble in dressage (no judgment implied here – that’s part of what schooling shows are for). I’ve scribed at schooling shows on both ends of the spectrum. They aren’t always comparable, either in terms of the show experience they provide or the judging/scoring.
For the competitor who goes to the schooling shows that hire licensed judges and have serious competition at their level, is it really meaningful to have your scores compared to someone on the other side of the region who’s getting wildly inflated scores from an inexperienced L grad in a class of one? If there are already year-end awards in your GMO or for the well-run, well-judged schooling shows you attend, are you really going to want to pay extra to have your scores compared to the rest of your region? And if I’m the budget-conscious rider on a humble little horse at a small schooling show do I really expect my scores to fall into the top 10, when more dressagey areas have fancier horses schooling the same level at schooling shows? Maybe in some regions it will be meaningful, but for those that have a center of gravity for dressage that produces different shows than you find in their vast dressage-sparse hinterlands I’m not so sure region-level awards make a ton of sense.
I guess there’s not a ton of harm if it’s an opt-in system that puts the costs and administrative work on the riders who want it, instead of raising costs/hassle of schooling shows across the board. But to me it seems mostly like a pat on the head to mollify the little people while other measures are being taken that are not in our interest.
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