New Organization- United Dressage Jumping Club (UDJC)

[fivestrideline]

@Night_Flight

I also feel like the “they paid more for their horse, therefore they won even though they’re a bad rider” is often an excuse used by those who don’t yet have the self-awareness to recognize their own weaknesses and errors that would have kept them from winning regardless

Exactly on the money (lol see what I did there?). And I WAS one of those kids, blaming every disappointing result on the cash that other riders supposedly had. Turns out, I had a lot of work to do before I could reasonably say that money was the ONLY reason I pinned lower than I wanted.

Now that I’m older (and hopefully ride better), I can honestly say I don’t compete in rated hunters mainly because I cannot afford to be competitive - and being competitive is important to me. So I show unrated and wholeheartedly support such organizations that share my values, or I do rated jumpers. Problem solved.

I think the fact that this organization refuses to answer the questions about allowing people to participate that are on SafeSport ban lists and has no drug testing are good enough reasons to be skeptical. Human safety and horse safety are my first priorities. I hope the program can address these concerns, and not become a haven for banned individuals and those wishing to give a little pony cocktail to ease Susie around the course

[Midge]

@albytb

I feel like the people offended by this skit are out of touch with the reality of most equestrians… not a single thing satirized in that video is false. I think we have to acknowledge how absurd showing has become in the h/j world.

Well they are presenting hunter judging that doesn’t reward the most skilled rider as a problem. Rewarding the skilled rider is called equitation, not hunters. Do they even offer equitation? I mean, if the idea is to reward the skill of the rider so someone feels welcomed to bring their not fancy horse, then shouldn’t it be equitation?

[albytb]

Well yes, but equitation itself is a bit ehhhh to me too since the caliber of the horse also has an influence on the ribbons. It’s not a black and white thing to begin with. So I would prefer to just have equitation be a factor of scoring already in a hunter class, not its own separate thing.

As someone who spends a decent amount of time at A shows (but not showing myself), I do have a lot of appreciation for the beauty of the modern hunter class and that it’s not as simple as just sitting pretty on an expensive horse, but I can never shake off the absurdity of some of the standards.

[OverandOnward]

If you read their judging criteria, it is the effectiveness of the rider that is being judged. There is some rider position involved.

It likely wouldn’t fit a strict traditional American horse show definition of ‘equitation’. But it is a rider-based judging, a sort of parallel to the idea of equitation.

Basically what they are proposing is a re-thinking of an approach to what from the outside still looks like a traditional horse show. Or, as the leaders are approaching it, a more European perspective on what is being judged.

[Railbird]

Every horse sport has a better chance if you’re on a nicer horse. No one is doing hand wringing that in a 1.40 class there are some horses that have more scope and carefulness that can go clear with an imperfect ride and some that will be 4-8 faulters with all the stars aligning, it’s just how it goes.

[Midge]

@albytb

Well yes, but equitation itself is a bit ehhhh to me too since the caliber of the horse also has an influence on the ribbons. It’s not a black and white thing to begin with. So I would prefer to just have equitation be a factor of scoring already in a hunter class, not its own separate thing.

True in every single class everywhere. And equitation does have an influence in hunters already. If you make a mistake, it shows.

[trubandloki]

@albytb

I feel like the people offended by this skit are out of touch with the reality of most equestrians… not a single thing satirized in that video is false. I think we have to acknowledge how absurd showing has become in the h/j world.

I find the video offensive not because someone is making fun of the hunter world (and making generalizations and all that), but because someone thought this was a good way to advertise their whole show series, by making fun of something that in theory is a totally different thing than their show series.

[enjoytheride]

@albytb

I feel like the people offended by this skit are out of touch with the reality of most equestrians… not a single thing satirized in that video is false. I think we have to acknowledge how absurd showing has become in the h/j world.

Isn’t horse showing itself absurd? UDJC isn’t anything like a hunter show, so why go out of their way to attack that type of showing? I think saying that anyone who’s offended is “out of touch with reality” is also a FANTASTIC way of getting entries to a new series by the way.

EVERY horse sport is easier on nicer better trained horses. EVERY horse sport is easier if you ride better.

[trubandloki]

@OverandOnward

If you read their judging criteria, it is the effectiveness of the rider that is being judged.

I do not know how this can be a thing unless the judge has a full history of every horse and rider.
Otherwise the rider that will win is the rider on the best trained and most appropriate horse (or the pro who is amazing and always makes it look easy).
Which is the thing everyone is complaining about with the hunter world.

[enjoytheride]

Right. It sounds like an equitation class…in which the better trained horse showcases a rider who has done the work.

It’s also a TAD bit ironic that the people complaining about HJ shows are stoked that the UDJC has chosen to allow safe sport banned riders to openly show. Can you really say you care about horses if you don’t care if a trainer who has drugged horses is showing?

[dags]

@enjoytheride

It’s also a TAD bit ironic that the people complaining about HJ shows are stoked that the UDJC has chosen to allow safe sport banned riders to openly show. Can you really say you care about horses if you don’t care if a trainer who has drugged horses is showing?

1. Absolutely no one has said nor even implied that
2. Safe Sport has zero governance over drugging
3. The skit specifically calls out the culture of drugging to produce a quiet hunter

This reaction to what is clearly satire has a whole The Lady Doth Protest feel to it, and going all caps-lock and writing off the entire effort wholesale strikes me as extreme. I mean, I’m as hunter princess as it comes, and I can clearly see the humor while also recognizing the grains of truth. I have enormous appreciation for a gorgeous six-figure hunter throwing down a flawless hunter round, but I am also furious that I have to tell the kid with a $50,000 budget that there’s not a 3’3" Junior Hunter to be had at that price. Both can be true.

The jokes not on you, dear hunter exhibitor. The jokes on USEF, who has blithely ignored the warning signs and member concerns that this entire sport is heading towards the 1% sandbox. Every one of the punch lines is the result of USEF decisions over the past 30+ years, not your participation in the division. You are there because it is literally the only game in town. Because USEF watched the downfall of B & C circuits, shrugged their shoulders, and threw their entire weight behind 8+ week mega circuits.

And again my disclaimer, if there’s a real trespass here, it’s calling it Hunters. The same jokes would still work, and you draw a nice clean line that you intend to be different. But we are talking about a grass roots horse show teaming up with a grass roots marketing company looking for any sort of traction in the $$$ multimedia madness… like, come on! this was a really fantastic effort! They’re just not Madison Avenue firms winning awards for subtlety.

It’s just so damn hard launching anything. So damn scary. I’m not gonna march these guys right up to the funeral pyre in their first year because Americans don’t get Euro humor. Or because they didn’t have the resources for focus groups and 25 script re-writes.

[enjoytheride]

I did not say that Safe Sport covered drugging, perhaps you misread what I wrote.

[LazyA1]

I doubt the very wealthy who are the bulk of USEF H/J exhibitors and owners care what UDJC says or does. These owners and exhibitors are not price sensitive. The HJ shows are their White Lotus resort. They laugh and joke about how they take drugs or drink for show nerves. They hand over complete control of their horses and pocketbooks to trainers. They make jokes about their riding, which is fine as long as it comes from a place of self-esteem and self agency. That whole scene is trainer-driven. Now they have a choice. If they like it the way it is, all they have to do is stay. No one is taking anything away from their world.

[albytb]

And this is exactly what I mean when I refer to the “absurdity” of the modern showing scene…

There’s going to be one of these shows in my area. My horse is still a baby but my barn is going so I’ll definitely at least spectate!

[Quincy]

This whole thing reminds me of what happened in my husband’s (non horse) sport. A person started another organization that they advertised as a “cheaper, less rules” league. They even took a bit of a less serious approach/more relaxed/jokey feel. And my husband was with this league for a few years until certain important issues that weren’t addressed became really problematic (that were addressed by the other older organizations). So if this showing organization wants to thrive, IMO they will have to eventually address certain issues (like Safesport, etc…)

[2bayboys]

There’s a whole thriving non-rated show scene in VA that’s been going on for years and years with no drug rules and no SafeSport. I’m not sure why this new one wouldn’t survive as well, as long as it attracts a steady stream of customers.

[OverandOnward]

It is possible the UDJC is most likely to catch on in areas where schooling shows / unrecognized shows are not as prevalent. Where there is an interest in showing more often at such shows, than there are local shows of that kind.

If there are plenty of non-USEF shows and thriving local circuits and organizations, possibly those are areas where the UDJC would be of less interest.

There are two paths for UDJC, perhaps – to satisfy a need wherever it is only lightly met, and to offer a different kind of experience for those who are interested in the change. Suspect those may be two different constituencies. Time will tell.

Where I am, the primary source of non-USEF classes are within rated USHJA shows. There are one or a few divisions in a side arena, running for part of a day on a Saturday and Sunday. The catch is that although some locals do bring over for a day some horses and riders for just those classes, there are also green horses and well-mounted learning riders from show stables that are there for the big show. It’s back to the same issue – the schoolies aren’t competitive with the pricey WB’s, no matter the riding.