I’m still not understanding why the ‘breeder’ field in the horse’s USEF registration doesn’t accomplish keeping track of the horse. With the pending requirement to microchip, we should see a significant decline in horses and ponies who lose track of the original registration, no? And if you register the foal with USEF, won’t then your breeder info stay with the USEF registration for the horse’s lifetime?
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Are you a breeder? Have you been breeding for very long?
While I’ll admit that my opinions are more slanted towards pony breeders (since I am one), I’ve very much tried including the horse breeders (suffix users) in my opinions. Since they are my opinions and very much the feelings and opinions of a large majority of my friends (who breed ponies), I’d never point a finger and say that their opinions are “ridiculous” as you put it. I haven’t put anything forward in the form of a rule yet since it’s WAY TOO EARLY to do so, I willingly and openly put it out on social media to capture the feedback from breeders that use prefixes and suffixes, so those opinions could be included in the final draft, as they will. But I’ve gone about it in a very open and genuine way and not once have I not welcomed a breeders point of view. I want to hear all sides.
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It would stay if the new buyer doesn’t just re-register the horse with a different name etc. My buyer is a USEF member,shows, but either made a new name for the horse or didn’t show him (highly unlikely). She owns multiple horses so in my case, I can’t tell which one “may” be mine.
The system, as is, is only as good as the people who use the honor system. I don’t know how things will change now that microchipping will be required. Mine was just my personal story or losing track of the horse, which should have been easy enough to track down.
Now that I write this- his brother who was sold to a big barn in Florida totally re registered the horse and his information was “unknown”. That was disappointing to me, as his breeder.
You have shut down just about every person I’ve seen present you with reasonable arguments with a “well then don’t use prefixes/suffixes as part of your program anymore and it won’t apply to you” and have been otherwise completely unwilling to acknowledge any of the points in any of the places I have seen you post. It doesn’t seem to be about hearing sides, it seems to be about finding people who agree with you and dismissing anyone who doesn’t. But it is ridiculous, in my opinion. It does absolutely nothing to address the problem of horses losing the connection to their breeders, it’s a rule about the way horses are named that one pony breeder is trying to force on every other breed and discipline under the USEF banner just because they sold a pony and the buyer dropped the prefix when showing it. The gripes of one individual who has a particular thing for prefixes should not shape the entire way we have to name horses in order to show them in the United States.
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Is there no recourse for this with USEF Pennywell? Just wondering if you as a breeder can send some official document to them to have the breeding of a horse updated. Or does the owner have the final say regarding the horse’s registered information?
I’m sorry to hear you lost track of the horses you bred. I can only imagine how frustrating that would be. And I could see how that could happen when people re-register a horse under a different name with no reference to the prior information.
I’m not sure how the microchip process will work, but I’m imagining this scenario. You microchip your foal and register it with USEF. You then sell it. The microchip number will be required when the new owner registers it with USEF - either by doing a transfer of ownership (the correct way) or by registering anew (the wrong way). In either case, USEF should identify that the microchip number is already on record. The sire, dam, and breeder info should stay with the original USEF registration, regardless of a change in ownership. I could be completely wrong here, but I can’t imagine why they would delete it.
Microchips won’t solve the problem of breeder recognition by the horse show announcer.
I’m neither a pony person (although I LOVE ponies) nor a breeder and am pretty clueless of both. Until I read this thread, I thought a prefix was given by the farm that owned the pony. I had no idea it indicated the breeder.
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In my opinion, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, I think it would be more beneficial to join forces with a program that has already been put in place to help identify horses and breeders: https://horsenetwork.com/2016/01/eve…icrochip-rule/ A proposal could be put forward to simply add “ponies” to the new microchip rule.
As others have mentioned, the proposed rule change for prefixes is flawed in several places. At the end of the day, it does not stop new owners from registering their horse or pony with a completely new USEF number and identity. But a microchip prevents that from happening. As someone who is on several rule committees, I see some problems with the proposal…so you will have to make sure the wording is 100% correct or it will be denied by the committee. For example, the proposal says the prefix must stay but the rest of the name can be changed to something else. Here is where a potential problem arises:
I sell a pony registered as Daventry’s Center Ice. The new owners want to register the pony with USEF and understand the “Daventry’s” prefix must remain the same…but they don’t like the name Center Ice. They go ahead and register the pony with USEF as Daventry’s Offside instead. All is fine and good until I sell another pony, who’s registered name IS Daventry’s Offside and they try and register him with USEF under that same name. Then we have got double naming happening in the database or USEF denies the name.
In a nutshell, the problem I see happening is when a new owner must keep the prefix but is allowed to change the rest of the name, there is a small chance the horse or pony ends up being renamed something that is already registered with a breed association under that name and then there is a problem when someone tries to register the other pony with USEF who is registered under that particular name. My guess is, they won’t go back to the breeder and make sure the new name they want is available. 
I think it would be great to work with the program that is already in place and get pony breeders on the bandwagon to microchip. Each of our ponies is microchipped before they leave the property and I would love to see them become a part of the new USHJA initiative. At the end of the day, I don’t think it is possible to ever stop someone from calling their show horse what they want to call it…but microchipping and cataloging through the USHJA/USEF at least gives breeders and stallions/mares the recognition they deserve in the database.
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As a buyer, I really appreciate this.
I am happy for the microchip changes; as a junior back in AHSA days, you’d see 15 YO “green” ponies that you’d recognize as prior regular devision champs, showing under new names.
I also greatly appreciate the work that goes into breeding a horse, and I want that information to be recognized and available to others. I spend a lot of time looking at the breeding of horses who catch my eye, so I like having that information readily available. Especially the dam, and being able to see the breeder might lead to more information on the mare and her family, which is ideal for me.
But gosh, if someone is paying more than most people in this country make in a year for a horse and thousands of dollars a month in upkeep, I respect their right to have whatever name they want called over the PA systems. I personally don’t like a jumble of letters at the end of a horse’s name, and while I’m more than happy to have the breeder listed on all paperwork, or even promote the breeder, I’d probably not look at a horse if I wasn’t allowed to not have those letters called out at shows. There are a lot of nice young horses out there, and that would be an easy way to thin the list if this was in place.
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Several things. Are you a breeder? (this is the second time I’ve asked this) and if so, how long have you been a breeder?
Secondly, I have NEVER said: “well then don’t use prefixes/suffixes as part of your program anymore and it won’t apply to you” - you will have to show me where I stated that anywhere.
Now what I HAVE said is if you don’t already use a prefix you wouldn’t need to worry about this proposed rule because it wouldn’t apply to you.
Third, we’ve been fortunate not to have had a prefix dropped, but I know MANY others this has applied to.
I agree with much of what you’ve said here. I have started microchipping and always record my foals within the year of their birth. I always recommend that to fellow breeders and now have encouraged them to microchip as well. I did mention the microchipping in the article I wrote, but again, that won’t help the breeder when the name is announced, but even if the name is changed, the original name does show up as an alias.
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The problem is with this statement, hunter shows don’t have a place for the breeder on the entry blanks.
Perhaps lobbying to add a place for the breeder on h/j entry forms would be a salient suggestion, then.
Also, if you’d been to the Dressage at Devon breed show in the last decade you’d know the answer to Erin’s (@epowers) status as a breeder and her involvement in sport horse breeding. But then, her credentials don’t make her any more or less entitled to have an opinion in this matter. Anyone who owns and competes horses under the USEF umbrella has a right to an opinion on this issue.
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It seems to me that this problem will generally go away once the whole microchip every horse thing happens.
The breeder can chip and register their horse with all the right breeder, stallion, and mare information filled out. Then even if the new owner wants to change the name from XYZ Fancy Breeder Pony LUV to Tear Drop Pumpkin all the other information is still there for anyone who wants to see it to see it when they look up Tear Drop Pumpkin.
(This post is by someone who uses the suffix and registered name of the horse she owns even though she does not like either.)
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Yes.
The key would be for breeders to record every foal with USE before sale, thus insuring the information is correct. Just add the cost into the price of the foal.
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What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
You’re a breeder. You want everyone to know you bred whatever pony is out there. I get that. It’s great, fine & dandy. Your proposal still dictates what a person can name their pony years or even decades after you’ve sold it, just to make you happy. Never mind what they want, as long as you are happy.
If I spend $100K on a pony and want to name it “Poopsie’s Lollipop” why should I have to make you happy and name it “Otteridge Poopsie’s Lollipop”? It’s a philosophical question really, why does your need for recognition trump my desired choice of name? Why do you as a former owner have a greater say in naming an animal than the present owner? Other than “Well, I bred it” what claim do you have?
Some of the worst names I’ve seen are bad because the farm name is shoe-horned in somewhere. If I hate a name enough to pay to change it, I don’t want to have to keep the part I likely hate the most. Don’t forget that USEF rules affect more than just H/J ponies.
Lobby to add a breeder name to H/J entry form, but don’t tell me how to name my horse.
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Two things to answer your points; have you tried asking show management to add anything? Not going to happen.
And in reply to “Anyone who owns and competes horses under the USEF umbrella has a right to an opinion on this issue”…that’s why I brought it here. 
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Yes, I’ve mocrochipped as well, but that doesn’t help us when the horse or pony’s name is announced unfortunately.
I am betting in most cases that having a prefix or suffix announced will not make a difference one way or the other.
Someone sees a horse they like they will ask the name and look it up. They are not going to stand around listening to the announcer.
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I certainly heard this side of it many times and I see this side of it as well. My point I guess is because I feel the prefixes should be kept to recognize that the animal wouldn’t exist if not for the breeder. Period. Even if you spend xyz dollars on it afterwards, the breeder still created it and you had enough sense to buy it. It’s more of a respect thing to me. Having seen many Farnley ponies have their names changed and pedigree changed to “unknown” (which is maddening) or even worse, someone ADDING the (for example) Farnley prefix to a pony they own just because if has Farnley pedigree in there somewhere and they want the prestige…I think both are completely wrong. I see it way too often.
Sure the animal wouldn’t exist if wasn’t bred.
Odds are that if no one bought it, the breeder would end up either with a huge herd, in debt up to their eyeballs or both - basically out of business. Once you sold it, you sold it. If you want control over the name, keep it.
I find it funny that you call this a respect thing. You want respect for you (or any other breeder), but you don’t seem to have much respect for a very personal choice (a name) by a future owner.
This whole thing really appears to be you wanting USEF to make sure consumers are marketing your product for you. Is that really what USEF is for?
I don’t see how your proposal can possibly keep people from intentionally losing papers/breeding on a horse or pony.
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