https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hokqRs9GbrI
This video not only demonstrates engagement but also shows a radiographic experiment conducted at U.C. Davis that investigates what happens to the spine when a horse is actually “engaged” in it’s core.
Not really hearing anything new–meaning anything that goes against traditional/classical riding. They didn’t have to x-ray horses back in the day to see what improved the horses and made them stronger and healthier for longer.
Thanks for watching! What’s new is the X-rays, the proof… I am curious as to how others feel about this.
Thank you!! This is a beautiful summary and explanation, including easy to understand evidence, about proper training compared to improper training. A useful visualization for ALL riders of all levels and experience!
I appreciate all the time and effort that went into this study and creation of the video! Thank you!
True, but did we really need that proof? I mean, the health of the horse makes good riding pretty obvious. I think the one thing that this helps to do is to disprove rollkur as useful way to train a horse and help it have a long career.
I really enjoyed it. You can send a video of your horse in to Art2Ride and they’ll critique it for a small fee. It’s helped me.
Good point re: rollkur!
On the rollkur issue, I’m just have never understood why anyone who knows correct riding, what a happy and healthy horse is would ever condone it. It also bothers me a lot that the judges have been rewarding it and horses that are broken at the third. It’s the judges’ fault when this stuff creeps in and ruins our horses. Most riders want to win at all costs–in any sport. The example of WP in the video is another one ruined by horrifically poor judging.
"Both riders and trainers are lacking in ability to recognize lameness, and to recognize behavioral signs that indicate an underlying pain related behavior problem.
Those people really need education to improve recognition of pain and behavioral changes related to pain."
This is so true! We see this time and time again. A friend has been complaining about her horse, his “issues”, tension, and how she’s wanting to sell him because “it’s all in his head”, his bloodlines. Sounded like pain to me. She complained about the bad scores her horse got with her trainer riding, how tense her horse was. I asked about his feet and saddle, and explained that if either or both were wrong, could be head to toe pain.
Turns out he was dragging a hind foot. I suggested she look at the balance of the hoof, irregularities in the trim. I said that if hoof imbalanced, expect sore rear end muscles as result. The farrier she’d been using for last two years had been trimming one foot totally wrong. How did her trainer and previous trainers not see any of this? How did she not see it while cleaning his hooves?
On to his saddle…she then told me that his saddle isn’t fitting well, is now too small, palp’d his back and it was sore (before the show). Again, how did the trainer not notice this? If the owner knew the saddle didn’t fit and back was sore, why keep riding with it, and why even consider showing the horse? Poor guy. I’d love to see video of how the horse is being ridden.
Not the first time I’ve heard this story where people don’t look at the obvious, but blame the horse.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8628564]
True, but did we really need that proof? I mean, the health of the horse makes good riding pretty obvious. I think the one thing that this helps to do is to disprove rollkur as useful way to train a horse and help it have a long career.[/QUOTE]
Well, just what we were waiting for, another spicy critique from our Velveeta :lol: But we still loff you anyways :lol:
I found that the interesting bit for myself was at 6.0 minutes…
[QUOTE=Velvet;8628564]
True, but did we really need that proof? I mean, the health of the horse makes good riding pretty obvious. I think the one thing that this helps to do is to disprove rollkur as useful way to train a horse and help it have a long career.[/QUOTE]
Yes! Because just saying it’s wrong isn’t sinking in. And like you said, judges are rewarding it. And how many people are missing obvious health signs related to bad riding? TONS.
[QUOTE=Color of Light;8628599]
Yes! Because just saying it’s wrong isn’t sinking in. And like you said, judges are rewarding it. And how many people are missing obvious health signs related to bad riding? TONS.[/QUOTE] But, there’s always been bad riding, ever since man started riding horses. I think it’s funny that in this day and age we continue to require scientific evidence of bad riding to help people understand that it IS bad riding. Really sad that happy and healthy horse is not obvious to so many. Once again, ESPECIALLY shocking that judges cannot. :no:
[QUOTE=belgianWBLuver;8628597]
Well, just what we were waiting for, another spicy critique from our Velveeta :lol: But we still loff you anyways :lol:
I found that the interesting bit for myself was at 6.0 minutes…[/QUOTE] I’m Velvet, not Velveeta! Not sure who she is… 
BTW, it’s my job to come out here and being the whipping boy. Seems that way, doesn’t it? 
Oh and BTW Velveeta is a term of endearment
Back to the video, I really like in the video, how she clearly explains at about minute 10.47 how a horse needs to strengthen first, accomplished by periods of long stretchy contact with short periods of head up, shorter contact, engagement. And these periods of shorter contact become longer and longer over time as the body of the horse strengthens.
I watched the video and have to say that I felt like the beginning anatomy portion was rushed and too fast to be understandable to someone who doesn’t have a basic understanding of equine anatomy, and too much time was spent on the trainer repeating the same thing over and over again. What would have been better (from a purely critiquing and usefulness standpoint) is more of HOW to work your horse in that manner. Speaker says it takes two years to get there with a horse’s musculature. Okay, so what are you doing in those two years to help that progression? I know what bad riding and lumps and bumps and such look like. Show me what to do and how to do it, don’t just tell me what needs to be done.
I do feel like I’m trying to be sold something - perhaps that is the goal? To have me inquire about what to do and how to do it and then pay the trainer for some help?
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8628724]
… What would have been better (from a purely critiquing and usefulness standpoint) is more of HOW to work your horse in that manner. Speaker says it takes two years to get there with a horse’s musculature. Okay, so what are you doing in those two years to help that progression? I know what bad riding and lumps and bumps and such look like. Show me what to do and how to do it, don’t just tell me what needs to be done.
I do feel like I’m trying to be sold something - perhaps that is the goal? To have me inquire about what to do and how to do it and then pay the trainer for some help?[/QUOTE]
Yes she is definitely selling something and I agree with you its a bit “kool-aidish” but I did understand the “2 or so years” of progression to get there with a horse’s musculature.
IMO its 2 or so years of the accordion-like stretchy work with short periods of raising and more collection peppered in as the horse gets stronger and as you feel less and less resistance and less and less fatigue on your young horse’s part.
All this coupled with maybe some Ingrid Klimke style cavaletti work. Some trail riding. Getting out to different venues, etc…
AND its also dependent on your individual horse - some will strengthen and progress faster than others. Some breeds will progress differently than others also. Nothing new about this.
But honestly - I can count on one hand the number of people I know who actually take the time to train a young horse this way!!
I have to because my guy was ruined before and needed and still needs the slow methodical approach to his work.
But most horse owners I know are much more forceful and much faster in their approach to progressing up the levels with their young horses.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8628672]
I’m Velvet, not Velveeta! [/QUOTE]
You sure about that? snicker.
Not sure who she is…
Yup. I depend on you for taking that role.
But back to the video. I also thought they could have spent more time explaining anatomy. Overall, it was good. X-rays are essential, especially if you are having a problem with your horse and can’t quite pinpoint it. So, Velveeta, I think x-rays are essential for diagnostics AND for better understanding what is going on below the surface.
[QUOTE=belgianWBLuver;8628762]
Yes she is definitely selling something and I agree with you its a bit “kool-aidish” but I did understand the “2 or so years” of progression to get there with a horse’s musculature.
IMO its 2 or so years of the accordion-like stretchy work with short periods of raising and more collection peppered in as the horse gets stronger and as you feel less and less resistance and less and less fatigue on your young horse’s part.
All this coupled with maybe some Ingrid Klimke style cavaletti work. Some trail riding. Getting out to different venues, etc…
AND its also dependent on your individual horse - some will strengthen and progress faster than others. Some breeds will progress differently than others also. Nothing new about this.
But honestly - I can count on one hand the number of people I know who actually take the time to train a young horse this way!!
I have to because my guy was ruined before and needed and still needs the slow methodical approach to his work.
But most horse owners I know are much more forceful and much faster in their approach to progressing up the levels with their young horses.[/QUOTE]
ding ding ^^^^ This is so true. And for pocketpony asking for more details, you just can NOT teach that on a video. People need a good instructor.
[QUOTE=suzy;8628790]
But back to the video. I also thought they could have spent more time explaining anatomy. Overall, it was good. X-rays are essential, especially if you are having a problem with your horse and can’t quite pinpoint it. So, Velveeta, I think x-rays are essential for diagnostics AND for better understanding what is going on below the surface.[/QUOTE]
I thought the x-rays were helpful, but not 100% necessary when talking about correct training. Or rather, it shouldn’t be. Maybe to show incorrect training and its effects. It seems obvious that people nowadays respond to fear, so maybe that would work better to bring them back from the dark side. 
^Agree - Honestly if this makes the rounds on the internet maybe the fear tactics will make a few more people realize that they need rethink their and their horse’s training. Hope so :yes:
