New York Supreme Court Ruling on Barney Ward

[Checkers324]

<< Sorry, Checkers, I didn’t mean to step on teh discussion you were trying to have! >>

That’s okay! You didn’t “step on” anything. I’m just trying to drag myself out of this state of confusion over the Wards… LOL.

I can’t possibly see how McLain could have been set up, except by his own groom – but that’s very far-fetched, like something you’d read about in a mystery novel.
If he did NOT put chips in his horse’s boot, then it sounds logical that they were just lying in the grass – from where, I don’t know. I just can’t imagine there having been a set-up!

Good point gray17htb, this thread WAS originally about BARNEY Ward! The Wards are just too controversial, I guess.

[This message has been edited by Checkers324 (edited 11-15-2000).]

[Checkers324]

Woops, true, don’t want to start a debate here!

I just don’t feel that anyone who would intentionally do something to cause a horse pain – ANYONE, not just McLain Ward – does not belong around horses. May I suggest every person on earth read the Mark Rashid books?

[haligator]

Hello All,
I know I am going to get flamed for this, but I feel a need to say it. I’ve worked at a lot of shows over the past five years as a media coordinator and have gotten to know a lot of the top riders.

I’ve had the privilege of working at shows where McLain was riding - and I am sincere when I say it was a privilege. McLain has always been ready to go the extra mile when asked. I’ve dragged him out of the barn for countless autograph sessions and press conferences, had him sign a box of t-shirts for a 4-H group (for a fundraiser), and asked him to meet people whom he will never see again just because they wanted to say hello.

In every circumstance, McLain was polite, pleasant and just great to be around. He has gone out of his way to be helpful. Many other riders have not been as helpful…and some of their names would surprise you.

On one occasion this past summer, I went to see McLain a half-hour prior to the start of the big Grand Prix. Most other riders aren’t even around the barn at that time. But McLain was raking his barn aisles and checking on all his horses. From what I have seen, he and his staff take incredible care of the horses and dogs under his direction.

I can not begin to emphasize how highly I have come to think of McLain. I, like many of you, had many pre-conceived notions about McLain, but he, by his exemplary and professional behavior, has put them all to rest.

I know many people will be mad that I’ve said something nice about McLain, but there are other views out there.

Hallie McEvoy

[Mazzy]

Flame suit on.

Let me first state something, I do not intend any of the next comments to justify anyones’ behavior, however, I wanted to drop this thought into the conversation. At least the three horses in question were put out of their misery compared with some of the atrocious abuse that other horses suffer on a year by year basis. Take for instance the hot pony that sleeps without water buckets, the A/O jumper “mistakenly” given cocaine. Etc…

Unfortunately we could go on and on. While I think most individuals do not condone violence, I think there is a surprising focus on Barney Ward and a surprising LACK of focus on the abuse still going on today. There is so much energy devoted to punishing this man and continuing to go after his son (all you have to do is read posts on this Board to see the attitudes of people), perhaps we could use some of this energy to effect change today to protect the horses that are alive…owners, trainers, riders, judges. Perhaps it will take everyone agreeing to new testing, being willing to pay a higher drug fee (will $2.00 make a difference in your show fees…nah).

Just some thoughts for a Monday, in light of an unsubstantiated rumour (from a collection of vets over the weekend) which claims there were so many drug violations at the WEF last winter that if the AHSA followed up, the cost to the Association and the circuit in Florida would be too astronomical to the sport in general. I hope and pray this is just a rumour, if anyone has any colour on this I would be interested to know. Thanks.

[gladstone]

You bring up a very interesting piont Cactuskate. The Ward situation is similar to the P. Rose case. Both banned for life, yet Rose can still attend ball games his son plays in. He can sit in the stands, have a hotdog and beer and watch the person who brings him more joy than anyone. B. Ward is not even allowed in the stands. To me this is crazy, what would it hurt to allow him to sit in the stands and watch his son, it would hurt no one!

[Erin]

Actually, Barney Ward didn’t kill anyone or anything. He did put George Lindemann (and others) in touch with Tommy Burns, who did kill the three horses (and others).

In my personal opinion, the AHSA probably felt as though it had to take a pretty strong stance in this case. So they threw the most severe punishment they had against Ward and everyone else who was involved with insurance fraud. (At least, to the best of my knowledge, most, if not all, of those people have also been banned for life… someone please correct me if I’m wrong.)

I’m purely guessing here, but I think the AHSA’s primary goal was to bar Barney Ward from being an active participant in anything to do with showing. I mean, is it possible to be banned from showing, and still be allowed to spectate? Or has everyone else just walked away quietly without stirring up the fuss Barney is making?

Anyway, point is, I don’t think the AHSA thought “Gee, let’s punish Barney by not letting him see McLain compete and not letting him spectate.” They just wanted him out of horse shows… but they’re also not really inclined to do Barney any favors. So when he asked to be allowed to spectate, of course they’d turn him down.

This is all just my speculation, of course.

Here are the article links again. There was a series of about four articles during the trial, and I might still have some of them on my computer. I’ll look around and see if I can dig them up.

Lindemann Gets Maximum Sentence As Hulick Confesses In Court

Chicago Jury Believes Burns, Convicts Lindemann of Fraud

[This message has been edited by Erin (edited 11-13-2000).]

[lauriep]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gladstone:
You bring up a very interesting piont Cactuskate. The Ward situation is similar to the P. Rose case. Both banned for life, yet Rose can still attend ball games his son plays in. He can sit in the stands, have a hotdog and beer and watch the person who brings him more joy than anyone. B. Ward is not even allowed in the stands. To me this is crazy, what would it hurt to allow him to sit in the stands and watch his son, it would hurt no one! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, due to the nature of horse shows, short of escorting him to and from the stands, there would be virtually no way of preventing him from “watching” the schooling area, and then straying there, or to the barns, or exhibitor’s tents, etc. If it were more clearly delineated, as in a baseball stadium, the restriction might not be necessary. But I don’t see any other way for his ban from showing to be enforced than to also ban him from the show grounds. And that is too bad for McLain, who I admire a lot. I also knew his dad well, and he truly is very proud of McLain. But the situation doesn’t leave any options, IMHO.

[J_Turner]

Sorry if I was wrong … darn that Bob Costas … from the sounds of it, I was somewhere in between. Thanks Gladstone and Bethe.

[lillian]

Granted, there are probably many folks attending horse shows that have committed felonies and they are not barred from competing or attending the shows. However, BW did knowningly break the rules of the AHSA and therefore should be expected to suffer the consequences. The AHSA does not have rules barring people who have been convicted say, of a felony drug possession or bank robbery. Further, BW broke a sacred trust – he violated what is the very essence of this sport – the care and concern for our equine partners. I’m not sure I agree with a life-time ban, but I can certainly understand why the AHSA felt compelled to apply this type of punishment.

[gladstone]

Let’s put the B.Ward ruling aside for a moment and talk about M.Ward. First off if every rider who has ever tried to gain an advantage by prepairing thier showjumper, either by bamboo or other we will have to ban just about everyone in G.P. jumping. They all do it, so wake up people. The Aachen incident was questionable at best and for those who feel M.Ward was giulty he did serve a long penalty. Since then he has returned without problems and made it back to the top of the sport in a short time. I believe even winning eight or nine G.P.'s this season alone, which was made short by his penalty.From what I can see at the shows no ones horses recieve better care than his do. His groom have been with him for years and they seem to keep horse sound and competitive late into their teens. Do you know how many top G.P. riders can’t even keep a horse going for two seasons?? Give the kid a break, he’s our best!

[Flash44]

Pretty is as pretty does.

[horsenut]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JumpJockey:
Has M. Ward ever had any public comment or comdenation about his father’s admitted actions?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He’s made it pretty clear that he loves and supports his father (not necessarily his actions …).

There was an excellent 2-part interview with McLain on Towerheads a couple months ago. It’s great reading. If you’re interested, the links are:

Part I: http://www.towerheads.com/stories/mclainward20000704.asp

Part II: http://www.towerheads.com/stories/mclainward20000813.asp

I don’t choose to judge McLain for his father’s abhorrent actions. I also have a hard time condemning him for publicly supporting his father. He obviously feels he owes his life and his livelihood to his father’s support.

[This message has been edited by horsenut (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Spunky]

A lot of horse deals are done at horse shows, and usually the grounds are pretty synonomous with the stands. There isn’t the kind of delineation between spectator & participant like there is in baseball. Perhaps this is the reason.

I agree that this part of the punishment is harsh, but it may be a side effect of the intent of hte suspension; e.g., to prevent contact with potential clients on horse show grounds (?) I.e., I doubt if it’s the intent of the AHSA to separate the father from the son.

Incidentally, is this AHSA ban recognized by other nations’ organizations? That is, can BW watch his son at FEI events & in Europe?

Just offering thoughts, not trying to make any statements here on behalf of anyone.

[This message has been edited by Spunky (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gladstone:
Janet, so anyone who has comitted a felony should be banned from the A.H.S.A.? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not at all. But it illustrates the relative seriousness of Barney Ward’s offence compared to Pete Rose’s.

[Erin]

Ahem… you know the rules folks. No allegations of anything illegal… only what’s been proven in court.

You’re welcome to express opinions, but you cannot express an “opinion” that someone did something illegal.

Keep it clean, please. Thanks.

[Checkers324]

Pleaded GUILTY? To me that sounds like he was yelling, “I did it! I did it! Ban me! Ban me!” I don’t think so…

Very true, M. Ward should have checked his tack before he got on – although, I don’t know how many people would think to take the boots off and put them back on again…

I wasn’t here for the many debates, and I haven’t found the time to go and read all the old threads, so rehashing it just one more time is a good thing for me!

[Checkers324]

I agree with a lifetime ban. He helped kill three horses – isn’t that enough said?

[ponyjumper4]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gladstone:
Let’s put the B.Ward ruling aside for a moment and talk about M.Ward. First off if every rider who has ever tried to gain an advantage by prepairing thier showjumper, either by bamboo or other we will have to ban just about everyone in G.P. jumping. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well then, if that’s the case then why aren’t we more watchful and strict on punishment–we’re obviously not promoting horsemanship and fair competition. That’s just my opinion.

[foxhunter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Pretty is as pretty does.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Although I have not met McLain, I’ve only heard good things from those who have worked with or for him. I’m willing to bet he’s one of the most helpful, professional, and conscientious competitors in the sport. His father’s infamy will follow McLain the rest of his life; but rather than condemning him a la “the nut doesn’t fall far from the tree,” I prefer that McLain has gained a good sense of the dark side, and it’s ultimate consequence on one’s life.

Thanks, Inverness, for being the voice of reason once again.

[This message has been edited by foxhunter (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Glimmerglass]

Horsenut - I could not have said it better myself. A very accurate posting, thanks!