[QUOTE=PonyPenny;6748536]
Just look who is on the cover of Practical Horseman this month.[/QUOTE]
Who? (I don’t subscribe anymore).
[QUOTE=skydy;6748735]
Who? (I don’t subscribe anymore).[/QUOTE]
Scott Stewart.
[QUOTE=skydy;6748735]
Who? (I don’t subscribe anymore).[/QUOTE]
Scott Stewart
[HR][/HR]Are there valid reasons for vets to sell liquid magnesium to clients for competition horses? I thought its therapeutic purpose was for a “cocktail” for putting down an animal.
If there is no valid reason, perhaps USEF could fine those caught with it at shows?
Oh… I can’t say I’m surprised.
[QUOTE=Peggy;6748742]
Scott Stewart[/QUOTE]
Oh. I can’t say I’m surprised.
[QUOTE=annaelizabeth;6748659]
Oh and I just have to add, that bute and Advil analogy. Not the same, you choose to compete through the pain or take pain relief. The horse gets no choice in this. Your standing at the top of a very slippery slope.[/QUOTE]
Some of us work at horse shows. It’s our job, just as most horses have a “job,” unless they are retired in a big field with Black Beauty, as another poster put it.
I am as anti-doping as anyone. But there’s a problem. I was at a show last summer, I saw a syringe sitting on a hay bale outside a stall. Not my horse’s stall. Not with our barn. What should I have done? I had NO idea what was in the syringe or if it was being administered to a horse that was about to show or one that had finished showing for the week.
We can’t just start taking pictures of everything we thing might be off side. And do what with them, anyway?
Zero tolerance will send a lot of horses prematurely to pasture or worst case, the killers.
The experienced show horse with mild arthritis that can show effectively on prescribed doses of NSAIDs is worth it’s weight in gold to the right rider. FEI rules are great for high performance, but unnecessary for the 3ft hunter. Particularly now that we have meds that are kinder to the stomach in consistent use.
I think we need to focus our efforts on the policing illegal quieting agents. USEF has it right on the other substances.
Trainers need to be free to adminster IV meds…the horse that needs to be clipped, the horse that has colic and the vet is delayed, etc. so outlawing needles on the show grounds is out.
we need penalties that make it too painful to break the rule, along with more enlightened judging. Perhaps first infraction 6 months, 2nd infraction 1 year, and 3rd you are out…and should include owners and riders… And maybe In Stride should refrain from promoting those trainers just off suspension…
Take photos of horses getting injected of you see it. I course circumstantial evidence would not be enough.
Sorry but I can’t believe anyone could think that buting a horse so it can compete is ok. No wonder you guys have a doping problem over there.
Didn’t read all the replies, but maybe the pony had emerging lung because of all the drugs he was getting?
1 gram of bute equals doping? You are welcome to your opinion, but as a 50 year old woman, I can say that I’m a little off some days until I have my aleve. I’m not ready to be retired yet either! You are nuts! Horses are expensive. Horses that are no longer useful can wind up in a bad place. I think it’s kinder to prolong a show career responsibly under the care of a vet, than many of the other choices that face these horses.
I love the black and white thinkers… You get to feel righteous and turn a blind eye to the real consequences. There is no perfect solution here, but a gram of brute is not doping ethically, morally, or by usef rules.
See you get the choice though. You know that even though you get the pain relief it will be fine for now but when it wears off and you realise that your even more sore then at least you know that was your choice. Not the horses he doesn’t realise that over exerting him when he has had bute is going to make him more sore the next day.
I’m very black and white about drug use because it is black and white here in Australia. Bute is on the prohibited list as is many of your other “acceptable” drugs.
If you’ve got a horse with arthritis then you can try pentosan and a joint supplement but if that doesn’t work anymore then retire the poor thing. If you can’t offer a horse a home forever then why do you own a horse. I had to retire my amazing junior jumper at 12yrs old. I’m not about to pump it full of drugs just do I can keep competing, he never asked me to compete but he gave me some of the most amazing years doing it so now it’s my turn to give him some amazing years back, living the paddock life with the occasional trail ride to keep thing fun.
I worked in the past as the manager of a h/j show barn, and the drugging and other nefarious practices I saw, and wasn’t comfortable with, are a big part of the reason I decided to leave the industry. But I’m not sure there’s an easy answer for how the USEF can deal with it.
No injections prior to showing is unenforceable, with most local shows being ship-ins, and even at WEF most horses live off grounds. Going to FEI stabling requirements for all horses would raise costs astronomically, and even then people find a way to sneak shots in and give them when no one is looking.
Cracking down with drug penalties would be a big step forward, but there’s still no test for magnesium or several other favorite cocktails. Even if the drugging stops, then these people will shift towards other means, like lunging/riding till dead and witholding water. With those as the other options, better living through chemistry might be kinder to the horses. And again, with so many shows being ship-ins, it’s hard to police these practices.
Changing the judging standards would certainly help a lot, but with so few shows having the space to put on courses that truly reward brillance, it’s going to be tough. When it’s side-diagonal-side-diagonal, and one horse plays and the other doesn’t, it’s tough to pin the one that does play higher.
I do think the huge money, especially at the upper levels of the H/J world, is a big part of the problem. It’s hard to make a living in this business and most clients are clueless about what goes on behind the scenes and just care about their enjoyment and success, and I don’t see the level of client involvement changing anytime soon. With huge commissions to be made buying and selling horses, trainers are going to do what it takes to get people to be happy and staying with them. I just don’t see any easy answer to the problem.
Sorry, but you sound like you have limited life experience. Sounds like you have the benefit of lots of resources…not all horses are so lucky to have such an owner.
Using bute on a horse does not necessarily mean that you will be making them sorer post competition. In fact, keeping them in a regular program with periodic use of bute can actually improve conditions, not exacerbate them.
I too have retired horses in my care. Not an inexpensive proposition. Your ivory tower not withstanding, under a vets care, many horses benefit from the right amount of work and med under a vets care.
I only wish I had the resources to call a vet for every shot of bute or banamine needed by my horses. A little NSAID can prolong the useful life of many horses! If trainers and owners had integrity there would be no need to make a “rule” for every possible scenario. How to complicate going to the bathroom!
Yea, I have a lot of resources… not, I am at university working three jobs to support my horse habit. I train at 4-5am every morning. So my resources are I work my arse off to compete.
My limited life experiences have seen me compete and win at national level in two different disciplines on self made horses without the need to ride them on bute. But that’s just me.
Disagree, you can give ace IM or orally and some other sedatives IM. Also banamine can be given orally as well. I do not think anyone should be allowed to give IV injection other than a vet or vet tech working with a vet.
So, these people who hint about BNTs that drug their horses… why don’t you out them? Aren’t you perpetuating the problem? Maybe if these BNTs were publicly shunned they might be less likely to drug their horses?
[QUOTE=juststartingout;6747833]
Agreed… but knowing that the information is being tracked and is available might just prompt vets to act more cautiously[/QUOTE]
the current NYT article is an offshoot of the ongoing series on the state of racing. And drugs in racing. Where vets are required to give pre race meds. I don’t know if you could find a better test case to showcase the complete and abject failure of a rule intended to protect the animal and not the financial interests of the human, so thanks but no thanks. As rules go, that would do zero for the horses but it could definitely pay of some Vet school loans quicker…
