Newbie to Dressage

[TsarBomba]

Hello everyone,

Please be patient with me and my dumb questions.

For some context, I’ve been around horses for close to 30 years (started as a kid, did Pony Club, etc), however it was mostly hunter/jumper and I dabbled in some (very very very low level) eventing. My experience with dressage tests is so rudimentary that you’d probably laugh at me. “Pick up the working trot at K” sort of thing. As well, I’m not the sort of rider that simply is fine to ride around, but I need a discipline to focus on and goals (albeit small) to set.

Anyway, after a double organ transplant, I’ve got cleared to ride again, but no more jumping. The doctor actually suggested dressage by name so that was pretty cool. I’ve not started to ride again because I want to get “rider fit” before I start up again and then I would like to ride a bit before I start looking for another horse. However, I feel sort of like a fish out of water in this regard because the few dressage riders I’ve known over the years had so much poise and large warmblood types. That leads into my main question:

I’m a short rider (1.52 m) with a medium build. To be fair, I know how I feel on certain sizes of horses because of my short legs, and I feel as though with jumpers you can get away with some size “discrepancies” as long as you keep control and your aids are well-received. However, in my really limited understanding of dressage, I know riding with a longer stirrup length is a part of it and I am wondering about the sizing of my next mount. Preferably, I wanted to shop around in the 15.3hh to 16hh category (give or take) but will that be too much for a shorter rider? Am I overthinking this? A horse is an investment with a lot of frustration, but I don’t want to become too frustrated.

It’s not as if I expect to achieve any sort of high level in the sport so I’m not all that sure it matters, however, I do indeed want a sporthorse type, as that’s what I’m used to. Thoughts?

Sorry if I sound really dumb by the way, this all sounded like a better question in my head! :lol:

[2tempe]

Older rider here, 5 ft 3” on tall day. I have downsized over the years from 17 hand hunter to finally a 15 hand 3” dressage horse. It is much easier to for me to package this size. That said its also helpful to have something that is capable and has a brain. I also prefer forward thinking; my one WB mare was NOT and that was more work than I wanted. I have FEI level objectives and experience and have become a Lusitania fan. It should be possible to find something on the smaller side, especially if you are not averse to a more “off breed” horse. someone at my barn owns a really cute TB, nice mover and he is not more than 16 hands. Could make someone a nice lower level horse. Just one example. Others have mentioned looking at event horses that are maybe not bold enough to do the jumping phases. There are also smaller WBs or WB crosses that come up.

[Mondo]

OP, I have a number of petite students. Most of them prefer various pony breeds. Connemaras aren’t huge and can excel in dressage. One smaller student of mine is an older lady (65) who rides a 13.2 hand Dales pony (think mini Friesian)! The big Welsh cobs can really excel in dressage and they are usually a manageable size. Don’t forget Arabians either. They tend to be on the smaller side and are ubiquitous at dressage competitions. You don’t need to have a 17hh warmblood to enjoy dressage. I agree with you that pushing something that big around is not fun.

Welcome and enjoy your journey!

[Scribbler]

Buy something that is confirmed to quality first level. That will give you a horse that can teach you the basics without having too many hidden buttons or too much costly training that will depreciate because you can’t keep it tuned up. When you yourself are ready you can then start schooling further. Most ammies don’t go above first for various reasons.

Size of horse is not just the height at the wither but the size of the barrel. A big bodied horse will take up more leg, so you can go shorter in height.

Buy a horse that has nice enough gaits. You aren’t going to want to ride a giant WB trot.

Some of the nicest ammie dressage horses I’ve seen are Andalusian crosses, specifically Andalusian/Warmblood or Andalusian/TB crosses. They come out looking very Iberian. Of course a full blood Andalusian or Lusitano is wonderful too.

The Iberians have a natural advantage over every other breed in ability to collect and do lateral movement. It’s practically factory installed. They have better trots than many horses, but the gait varies between individuals. Some are more up and high, some are more forward and low (more dressage). The trot can be improved a lot on an Iberian. It will not ever look like the hyper mobile knee flinging international Grand Prix WB of today but you can absolutely do a correct balanced extended trot on them.

[SillyHorse]

I think the horse’s shape has at least as much to do with it is it height. I am just under 5’4" (1.63 meters according to professor google). My first “dressage” horse was 15.2 and WIDE. Wide shoulders, wide back, and a well-sprung barrel, like sitting on a picnic table, lol. I was always in some degree of a chair seat. My next horse was almost 17 hands, but narrow, so my legs, which are proportionately long, were able to hang pretty well down the sides. Two rides in my trainer told me I rode this horse better than I ever rode my first one, who I rode for 10 years. My current horse is just 16 hands, half Friesian, and with a bit if a Friesian barrel, meaning not particularly narrow but more sausage shaped. Again, my legs hang comfortably.

Ride as many different horses as you can, making note of how you feel in relationship to size and body shape. My guess is that you will be more comfortable on a narrower horse, and height will be a secondary consideration.

Good luck! I hope you find a lovely dressage partner.

[Scribbler]

@SillyHorse

I think the horse’s shape has at least as much to do with it is it height. I am just under 5’4" (1.63 meters according to professor google). My first “dressage” horse was 15.2 and WIDE. Wide shoulders, wide back, and a well-sprung barrel, like sitting on a picnic table, lol. I was always in some degree of a chair seat. My next horse was almost 17 hands, but narrow, so my legs, which are proportionately long, were able to hang pretty well down the sides. Two rides in my trainer told me I rode this horse better than I ever rode my first one, who I rode for 10 years. My current horse is just 16 hands, half Friesian, and with a bit if a Friesian barrel, meaning not particularly narrow but more sausage shaped. Again, my legs hang comfortably.

Ride as many different horses as you can, making note of how you feel in relationship to size and body shape. My guess is that you will be more comfortable on a narrower horse, and height will be a secondary consideration.

Good luck! I hope you find a lovely dressage partner.

Ah yes. That’s the down side to a wide bodied horse. You have to really work to keep your leg under you, and your leg will never visually appear as long and elegant as on a more slab sided horse.

[TsarBomba]

Thank you everyone for the advice!

It’s been quite awhile that I horse shopped (my last mare passed away in '14 but I was quite sick anyway so I didn’t look for another after that) that it’s good to be reminded of all these points.

And definitely, a big yes in regard to wide vs narrow. That thought came to me afterwards! Most definitely on narrower frames I am able to sink down and my leg reaches lower than on the wide ones that take up that, circumference?! My last mare was wide (not extremely huge, but full bodied) and that was my one complaint about her. That said, I love the picnic table analogy! :lol:

Thank you for the advice about finding a mount proven at first level and what needs to be heeded in regard to training. I didn’t know at which level I should have first sought, but I realized a schoolmaster would go to pot without my skills to keep supple and athletic. As for a breed, I will most definitely look at the off ones. Some years ago, I loved my Trakehner but I am in a different point of life now that being less competitive, I will look at any good mover that is willing with a sweet personality. Considering that now I have to take “organ safety” into context too, someone who is not too spooky or high strung, which is a little different than I am used to.

In regard to specific breeds mentioned, I actually knew a lady with an Arab x Andalusian. He was a beautiful gelding and the first time I saw piaffe with my own eyes (as in live, not dressage viewing on tv or video). Dales ponies are fantastic too. Years ago, I started one under saddle (not mine, but helped) and with our respective frames, we got a lot of compliments in the equitation ring. So, long story short, I am open to any and all once I start shopping, even small TBs.

Thanks all again!

[eightpondfarm]

ya know…some horses you climb aboard and you just KNOW you look good on them, because in your innerself, you know you fit. I think it’s more a matter of connection, or maybe rather more of a meshing of personalities… than it is size-compatibility. (But that is very real too …size-compatibility. I don’t like seeing little women on giant horses…looks weird.) People don’t seem to know you can get a ‘big’ horse without size. Presence is a big deal. I can get on a receding sort of horse and feel there is no horse there, then i get on a snorty one and sink down into them like i was born to be there. I need a horse that can take my personality. I’m a small size human, but i’m big on the inside…

[hoopoe]

Dont be shy about going to shows and watching the rides and talking to folks about their horses.

My last horse was a QH 15.1h, Im 5’7" He was the best, smoothest and most sensitive ride. So good in the lateral movement. Enough body to take up my leg. A treasure , personality wise.

Dont overlook sport bred Arabs and Morgans.

There are also dressage ponies, if your budget runs a little richer.

There are plenty of nice light bodied under 16h horses and ponies out there. I wish you well on your dressage journey

[Lucassb]

@TsarBomba

Hello everyone,

Please be patient with me and my dumb questions.

For some context, I’ve been around horses for close to 30 years (started as a kid, did Pony Club, etc), however it was mostly hunter/jumper and I dabbled in some (very very very low level) eventing. My experience with dressage tests is so rudimentary that you’d probably laugh at me. “Pick up the working trot at K” sort of thing. As well, I’m not the sort of rider that simply is fine to ride around, but I need a discipline to focus on and goals (albeit small) to set.

Anyway, after a double organ transplant, I’ve got cleared to ride again, but no more jumping. The doctor actually suggested dressage by name so that was pretty cool. I’ve not started to ride again because I want to get “rider fit” before I start up again and then I would like to ride a bit before I start looking for another horse. However, I feel sort of like a fish out of water in this regard because the few dressage riders I’ve known over the years had so much poise and large warmblood types. That leads into my main question:

I’m a short rider (1.52 m) with a medium build. To be fair, I know how I feel on certain sizes of horses because of my short legs, and I feel as though with jumpers you can get away with some size “discrepancies” as long as you keep control and your aids are well-received. However, in my really limited understanding of dressage, I know riding with a longer stirrup length is a part of it and I am wondering about the sizing of my next mount. Preferably, I wanted to shop around in the 15.3hh to 16hh category (give or take) but will that be too much for a shorter rider? Am I overthinking this? A horse is an investment with a lot of frustration, but I don’t want to become too frustrated.

It’s not as if I expect to achieve any sort of high level in the sport so I’m not all that sure it matters, however, I do indeed want a sporthorse type, as that’s what I’m used to. Thoughts?

Sorry if I sound really dumb by the way, this all sounded like a better question in my head! :lol:

Welcome back!!

I agree that conformation will have a bigger impact on suitability for a shorter rider than the horse’s height. A slab sided horse (of any height) will likely suit a shorter rider better than one that is thicker built. (I am 5’3 on a tall day, and my four horses are all over 17 hands - but they suit me because of their builds.)

Dressage riders do typically ride with a longer stirrup length than jumping riders do. However, this is something that you can adjust to over time. I rode hunters for decades before I switched over to dressage, and it was definitely something that took a while to get used to. However, once you get used to it - it’s a marvelous feeling! You will be so connected to your horse and much better able to communicate and influence the gaits.

Buy the horse that makes you smile … dressage is so much about connection and relationship. Then enjoy the journey !

[conniemary]

Others have made the valid point that size/shape of the barrel matters when riding dressage, but I’ve found height matters for many aspects of basic day-to-day handling. This will have more impact if you are short and you have had an injury or health issues. It’s just physically harder to get a rug or saddle on a taller horse. Yes, you can use a step stool, but sometimes you don’t have one handy and even when you do it’s still more physical effort.

As you’re just getting back into it I’d recommend trying to ride and handle horses/ponies of different sizes to see what will suit you for your next stage. At your height you could consider 13.2hh upwards- think of it as having a broader range of options than someone who’s really tall! (There’s a dressage pony thread on here somewhere, with lots of photos)

[TsarBomba]

Oh I definitely agree 100% that height does matter when handling horses. With larger horses, it’s great when someone is there to give you a leg up, but sometimes it is not possible and it is just a necessary safety skill to be able to mount from the ground. I needed a stool a lot for basic tasks like pulling/trimming manes and even reaching certain spots for a good brush. My last mare was 15.3hh but kinda buxom that I managed to get a rug on her easily but I just knew that anything taller would definitely be an issue. I definitely know my limits!

After a quick Google of dressage ponies, I am a little obsessed now. :lol: Some are as cute as a button! How does one not pack them into the car at night and not take them home?! If anyone has any dressage pony experience, I know this is a broad question and all are different, but how are their gaits? Do they “feel” like that shorter pony stride or are they a smoother ride?

[SillyHorse]

@conniemary

Others have made the valid point that size/shape of the barrel matters when riding dressage, but I’ve found height matters for many aspects of basic day-to-day handling. This will have more impact if you are short and you have had an injury or health issues. It’s just physically harder to get a rug or saddle on a taller horse. Yes, you can use a step stool, but sometimes you don’t have one handy and even when you do it’s still more physical effort.

As you’re just getting back into it I’d recommend trying to ride and handle horses/ponies of different sizes to see what will suit you for your next stage. At your height you could consider 13.2hh upwards- think of it as having a broader range of options than someone who’s really tall! (There’s a dressage pony thread on here somewhere, with lots of photos)

This is an excellent point. It’s so much easier to groom and tack up, especially the saddle, blanket, clip, etc. a smaller horse.

[2tempe]

Cant speak personally but I have a friend who has shown Welsh ponies in dressage for a number of years with success up thru Prix St Georges. (and she is about 5’6"). Her ponies looked smooth, obviously strides are shorter, but she worked to keep them relaxed and that would let the stride get somewhat bigger on its own. (This is not unlike some of the Iberians; they can get short/quick if tense, key is to slow the front end and the brain…) It is a bit trickier to find tack. Saddle will need to have “pony panels”; snaffle bridle will not be hard, but I know that a double, if you get to that level, is harder. Of course the saddle issue may come up even on a somewhat larger horse if it is short backed.

[Willesdon]

@TsarBomba

After a quick Google of dressage ponies, I am a little obsessed now… but how are their gaits? Do they “feel” like that shorter pony stride or are they a smoother ride?

I’m probably not the best person to answer your question because after so many decades of riding so many different horses I just automatically adjust to what I’m riding and don’t really worry about initial stride.

When buying your dressage horse, the gaits to look for are a good walk and a clean canter, both with good hock action. Trot can be really improved with training. By contrast, it is quite easy to ruin a walk. The canter is significant because as you move up the levels the canter work becomes ever more significant as do the scores given. So don’t worry about a WB with huge trot and legs like spiders. Good - that drops the price considerably and opens up the opportunity for any individual who has good shape and step.

Back to pony stride. A lot of the purpose bred dressage ponies have WB horse in them and they move like horses. I live in the land of ponies and I find stride depends on the individual. The Welsh, especially the Section D cobs, were bred to trot and they generally have a long stride and cover the ground (some are bred specifically for a high knee action which is not as comfortable to ride). They do very well in dressage. Scratch the pedigree of German Riding Ponies and you will find the Welsh foundation stock. The New Forest, not a common breed in the USA, is widely used in Europe for children because they are the most ‘horse-like’ ponies but here they are locally used by small adults too. Again, individuals have good stride because they are bred as all-purpose animals. Connies are the fashion of the moment and too many I’m seeing are loosing ‘type’, the characteristics that make them Connemara ponies, and are becoming too tall. For dressage, that isn’t an issue, just me moaning about the ruin of a lovely breed. The other M&M native pony breeds can do low level dressage because they have good minds and great heart but being designed to carry heavy pack-loads doesn’t make for shape or gaits that make dressage the easiest thing for Fells, Highlands etc.

The Iberian breeds are wonderful. Lusitano being my preference over PRE because the Portuguese retained them as working rather than show animals so, personally, I find their movement is better. The PRE does collection unlike other breeds but riding one can feel like a sewing machine going up and down in one spot - extension can be an issue. Try before buy.

Years ago I watched a Spanish horse working to haul a fishing boat up the beach and he was doing piaffe on his own whilst waiting to move further up the slope. That is in-built collection!

[joiedevie99]

IMHO, the most important thing is to buy something you feel comfortable on. Test ride it at least once, preferably twice. Some horses just feel like home, and some that look like they will be perfect on video just feel wrong. Height/Width is certainly part of the story, but not all of it. A high or low set neck makes a difference. A short horse with a long back can be harder for a newbie than a tall horse with a short back. It just depends on how the pieces fit together, and how the brain makes them work!

[TsarBomba]

It has been interesting to read the comments about dressage ponies and I appreciate the comments in what to look for in gaits (when dressage shopping). I admit that I was a little spoiled with my last horse because she was the smoothest ride ever that when I had to school horses just a little rougher, I got picky. My ex-trainer purposely made me school these sorts, I guess for my own good.

Personally, I just feel in my gut that I will be nowhere near needing to consider a double bridle so that would simplify ponies in that regard. While I most definitely will train hard, learn like a sponge and school regularly, I don’t have that natural physical ability and I guess mental fortitude for higher levels. Besides ponies, I do acknowledge the natural physicality for the sport (in certain regards) of Iberians. I’ve seen famous PRE Fuego and the Lusitano Coroado in videos and definitely notice the difference in shape. Since I know they “struggle” with certain aspects like a canter compared to a WB (I probably worded this very wrong and sound like a dummy) that perhaps at the top levels they are not so visible (please correct me if wrong), but are there many lower level riders paired them them? Not that it matters in popularity, but just curious, because they are indeed special.

And most definitely! I agree on finding a horse where we “just click.” The test rides reveal a lot and that is usually the decision-maker for me. It also sounds a little odd and this meshes more over time (than immediately), but I do appreciate personality in a horse. Just last week, my family and I were discussing how my last horse was the perfect fit for the family as she was an accident prone nervous wreck…just like the humans.

I feel like rushing my physio so I can start looking at horses now. :lol:

[Willesdon]

Do please keep us informed!

[conniemary]

@Willesdon

Connies are the fashion of the moment and too many I’m seeing are loosing ‘type’, the characteristics that make them Connemara ponies, and are becoming too tall. For dressage, that isn’t an issue, just me moaning about the ruin of a lovely breed.

I have a non-tall Connemara (my country’s breed registry excludes over height ponies) who looks stereotypically unmistakeably Connie, and gets lovely comments re: movement from dressage judges. So they are still out there, just on the wrong side of the world!

[Pehsness]

@joiedevie99

IMHO, the most important thing is to buy something you feel comfortable on. Test ride it at least once, preferably twice. Some horses just feel like home, and some that look like they will be perfect on video just feel wrong. Height/Width is certainly part of the story, but not all of it. A high or low set neck makes a difference. A short horse with a long back can be harder for a newbie than a tall horse with a short back. It just depends on how the pieces fit together, and how the brain makes them work!

I love that - some horses feel like home. So true

Good luck to the OP, how wonderful you are well again and ready to start this journey! I’m riding a 16hh QH and I’m 5.4. He’s a big boy but I love him and feel like we fit (I’m built like a farm girl, muscles and boobs, so like a bigger horse)