One week at an A rated show would cost the same as or more than a full year of fox hunting fun (depending on your area). You get to dress up and have lots of fun. Get to socialize and go to parties/balls. Horses get to do something outside of a ring (yippee!!). Just saying folks, there are alternatives out there!!
“If a false ceiling was put on the market to control costs, then demand would exceed supply. As long as people pay the prices to show and support the market, the market will continue to fulfill itself. When the consumer is truly priced out, the market cost will drop allowing for more participants and a new equilibrium price.”
As an economist, let me point out that USEF sanctioned shows are hardly an example of the “free market” at work. The mileage rules and the “ownership” of show dates precludes a free market. It’s a monoply, for heaven’s sake, or at very least an oligopoly. There is very little competition among horse show managers because few people are going to drive hundreds (maybe even a thousand) of miles further to attend a different horse show. If you want to show at USEF sanctioned show, especially if you don’t live in Zone I or Zone II, you are fairly limited in your choices of USEF recognized shows. Living in Texas, as does the OP, while there are a fair number of USEF recognized horse shows offered in the state, there are about 2 or 3 horse show managers that offer ‘A’ or ‘AA’ rated shows in the state. If you live and show in Texas, you know who they are. There is ZERO incentive for them to lower their costs.
Yes, horses are an expensive hobby, and horse showing is expensive (as is the cost of putting on horse shows), but let’s be honest, the horse show managers are making a ton of money in this sport. I’ve organized clinics in the past held at horse show venues (not during the horse show), and I can tell that the costs of stalls and renting the facility don’t approach what horse show management charges for stalls the same facility.
The only alternative (other than getting out of the sport altogether) is to show at local, unrecognized shows. Typically, that can be accomplished for less than $100 for the entire day. However, aside from the lack of recognition, the biggest determent to showing at unrecognized shows is that most trainers won’t take their clients to unrecognized shows, unless their clientele is more the lesson horse/novice rider type.
Horse shows didn’t used to be the industry that they have become. Back in the day. other than the “big” national prestige shows, many shows were held at and managed by owners of horse farms or stables. They would use their own rings, hire a judge and ring crew and people would trailer in their horses. Typically, the show would run a day or two.
The expense of horse showing isn’t want gets to me, it’s the EXCESSIVE and unnecessary expense of horse showing.
I just had a conversation with my trainer tonight. She’s done with it. It’s not worth it to her anymore. We talked about trying to find some closer shows we could do in two days max (one day for travel/schooling, one day to show and then drive home). Even better would be shows we could do in one day, but around here that is asking a lot of a horse as the closest shows are about 3 hours away.
Just like Trixie, I’m making more than many families and I’m making my fair share of responsible sacrifices. I am still saving for retirement, I have a rainy day fund, I drive a sub-compact car that most people would laugh at (I heart it though), I don’t shop often and when I do show it’s at places like Kohl’s or Old Navy. When I do show, I wear out of fashion hunt coats. 
I keep my horses fairly cheaply and am as frugal as I can be while providing good care for them. Even with all this sacrifice, I can’t afford more than 1 A show a year. That seems so ridiculous to me. I know it won’t change, but that doesn’t mean I am not going to vocalize how ridiculous it is.
[QUOTE=Manni01;7428440]
Isn’t Polo called the Sport of Kings??? And its even more expensive…[/QUOTE]
Surfing is the sport of kings. (a lot of sports lay claim to this “title.” )
[QUOTE=Nickelodian;7428281]
Since there are (as I’ve heard) 7500 horses showing at WEF on any given weekend (can that possibly be true)[/QUOTE]
It’s not true yet, but it could be true at some point in the future.
When I was in the horse show office the other day, they had given out numbers up to 5,000 and change. I believe 5,300 or so, IIRC. And not every horse with a number is showing, that is for sure.
So they will give out more numbers in the coming weeks, but there are not 7,500 horses showing yet, at least not at the H/J shows. I don’t know anything about the numbers for the dressage contingent. Or the polo crowd, which accounts for lots of horses in Wellington.
[QUOTE=Dinah-do;7427109]
Along with the yabbut… I can afford it ,My husband is ok with tit [/QUOTE]
Well… 
Of course if he is “ok with tit” then all is well…? 
[QUOTE=ynl063w;7428317]
With regards to the “future of our sport”, I don’t think lack of money is the only problem. Just as big, if not bigger, is the issue that it has become much harder today for a professional to make a decent living at being a trainer. [/QUOTE]
There are other issues also.
One issue is indeed the cost not just of the horse shows but of boarding, etc. To my perspective, the cost of keeping a horse has exploded over the past 20 years, in a way that outpaces inflation. I don’t blame those who run boarding barns - their costs have gone up (property taxes are much more, hay costs more, insurance costs more). But it’s an obstacle to someone wanting to stay in the sport.
Another issue is that, in order to earn the income that will enable you to support and compete a horse, you likely need to live in or near a large city. And barns are moving further and further into the exburbs. So, add a lot of commuting time in.
Now, the two obstacles above will not keep the TRULY dedicated amateur from competing; nor will the costs of the horse show. There are plenty of examples of people who have made it work. But these factors do discourage the people who enjoy the sport, but not to the level that they are willing to board at home, keep their AC turned off, never eat out, etc. And when you don’t have those people, the sport does suffer.
One other factor - I think it’s harder and harder for the average kid from non horsey parents to get started - there aren’t as many beginner barns as there used to be (I’m sure in large part due to the liability). When I was a kid growing up in the DC area in the 80s, it seemed like every kid took a few riding lessons or spent a summer at riding camp. It was just like soccer, ballet, or piano. I didn’t know that many kids that showed seriously on the A circuit, but it seemed like everyone had at least been on a horse, and many had worked up to jumping crossrails.
Now, 20 years later, it seems very few of my friends’ kids are trying riding. Too few places to try it. So you don’t have that background of every kid having ridden some (and thus understanding that it IS a sport). And you don’t have an opportunity for a few of those kids to get serious about the sport. And when you don’t have fresh blood coming in, it’s bad for the sport in the long run.
I love my horse but I decided Im done with showing. Its not worth it. I cant for the life of me figure out how people make it work. I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall while some of you who can show regularly do your finances.
I make a REALLY good salary for someone my age. Well probably for a single person of any age and I live in a low cost of living area so my income/COL ratio is in my favor. I have no expenses other than a house (which I bought way below my means) and a horse. But I cant make it work and cant for the life of me figure out how to make it work. Im with the poster who said they could make it work if they stopped saving, stopped 401k, stopped spending anything extra. But thats not me, so horse shows had to go.
I always thought when I hit this mark in my career and income I would be able to show as much as I wanted, but it just didnt work that way. I cant even make it work showing locally because the fees and expenses have gotten so out of hand. I haul my own horse, I trade out working for entries and it still doesnt work.
OP says
People pay to win
.
Speaking as an outsider, living in the UK, here we show to participate, to test ourselves and our horses, to check on progress in making the horse or the rider, to show off our animals, to have fun, a day out and POSSIBLY to win. Different culture, indeed.
Most shows depend on volunteers, including the judges. The largest shows last 4 days (HOYS, Royal International). The costs are always moaned about but generally are deemed to be part of having an expensive hobby. There are very few ‘professionals’ in the showing world, most competitors are amateurs. The pros make their money horse trading. Having said that, a top notch show hunter may cost as much as £8,000 and the prizes might be as high as, ohhh, £1,000 for a major prize at a major show. Very, very different world.
Different culture for sure Willesdon…but from what other posters said who use to show years ago, it use to be somewhat like that here. We don’t go to rated shows, partly due to expense, partly due to where we use to live and availability of shows, other people going, just access in general. However, one of the deterents of going to small local shows is also the judging. Not that someone has to win all the time. But you want to be judged fairly & we always try to walk away from a show happy we did our best, having some fun, and also learning something. Sometimes at those shows there are the Western riders who are also showing in English, the judge is not USEF rated, they follow different standards, and it can be frustrating for kids/adults/trainers when the judge who is partial to the western riders pins those riders/horses in an equitation class when those riders who are really riding with great equitation aren’t pinning. So many layers to the issues surrounding showing…overall costs are one, added on fees is another, and the list goes on and on. Prime Time Rider said a very true statement-the show managers aren’t hurting that’s for sure…
Regarding the future of our sport… there will ALWAYS be a few kids with talent and drive and parents willing to wave goodbye to them for the whole summer who will work for it. And there will always be talented riders without financial backing who decide they love it enough to go into business for themselves so they can keep riding. Many of the kids who were juniors with me, a lot of whom were working students, are now pros. This is an odd sport of ours - once its in your blood, its a hard addiction to shake. Trust me, I’ve tried.
And on the rest of this… I agree with the OP. Horse shows are expensive. HORSES are expensive. I knew that going into this, even though as a junior I was a working student and only paid for my food and flights in the winter (yep, free WEF, holler!). I knew it when I had my first re-riding stint, and chose to sacrifice my discretionary income on board and lessons, rather than clothes and bars. I knew it the second time around, when I am now married, and don’t have that option because our discretionary income goes towards other areas, and my horse budget is much smaller. It sucks… but it also sucks that Jimmy Choos are $600+ a pair. I made the choice to get back into it, and while it hurts to write those checks sometimes, at the end of the day, I CHOSE this based on my options, just like everyone else involved with riding chose their path. No one has a gun to my head, and complaining about it doesn’t change the reality.
Sort of the vote-with-your-pocketbook side of this issue, is that it seems like your choice of shows is made when you choose trainers. BNT’s like BN Shows. They can ride nice horses against each other and not have long days.
I went to a local (non rated) two day show this weekend, and had a great time at a nice venue with two nice big indoor arenas. My office bill for two divisions, inluding stall, shavings, my share of the barn’s tack and feed stalls, all of it, was $295. The show manager also does rated shows, so the courses and jumps were all first rate. There were over 150 horses there, so it was well supported.
I wish there were more of this type of show. But our local BNT’s for the most part are not interested in them. They were all off to Katy (Houston) or bigger. But there are still some good trainers who will go to this type of local show. Especially the up and coming ones, or the ones that do not show themselves. Or BNT barns will send an assistant trainer.
For the first time in years I think that the extreme chasm between the AA shows and the C rated/local level shows is so universally acknowledged that it is inspiring some very nice unrated/local shows to pop up. Though we have few (if any) USEF lower rated shows in VA, they are becoming very healthy in MD. I think people are slowly coming to the conclusion that they would rather attend fewer but higher quality shows per year as well. Another interesting show is the new Gladstone show in NJ. I think that you are going to see movement in that direction, of high quality unrated or lower rated shows. These shows will need to rely on sponsors to exist as entries at that level will not cover costs in general.
It seems that qualifying for indoors has also become less of a draw at the upper levels, as other than the ponies it takes less points every year to participate. I think people are truly looking for an alternative financially and looking toward finding those special events that are really fun, exhibitor friendly and offer a fine day or two of sport.
In most areas of the country it is very easy to get a C rated date. Few facilities in the country are capable of holding a AA rated date. If you have one you can usually figure out how to find a date to run one. I think you will find that finding a facility that meets rating demands and size of todays requirements, etc is more of a problem than acquiring a date. And as I mentioned earlier, people are working a bit outside the box and creating some excellent unrated shows. I truly don’t think that complaining about the mileage rule holds much water unless you live in a horse show heavy area and have a superb facility.
The cost of showing has gotten so ridiculous, I stopped showing.
I second, third and fourth what PNW said. And I see so many people who supported this industry for so long just willing to walk away…
Nickleodian, you are correct, the economics clearly support today’s model. But many people look at it from a business sense and very accurately point out that if you do not GROW, you die. Right now I think there is a very good argument to make for USHJA not growing in any significant numbers. This absolutely has an impact on the future of shows.
So maybe somebody out there thinks the current model is sustainable as an exclusive niche. If high end sports cars like Ferrari and lamborghini are anything to go by, not so much. Ferrari is owned by the much more pedestrian Fiat, and Lambo by Audi. Ultra wealthy niche products are almost exclusively bankrolled by businesses that are focused on an expanded base that is supported by the middle class. And what USEF/USHJA has recognized (if not solved for) is that they DO need to expand their “middle class” base. It’s not like it is an unidentified critical issue. But very little headway is made in addressing it, (in my opinion) because the the large shows are feeling pretty fat, dumb and happy right now, and the C shows are all but gone, thus temporarily making the large shows the only game in town (back to the false security of a protected - not free - market). Chances are they will stay that way until it is too late.
Now for comparative purposes, maybe we could discuss fiddling and Rome?
[QUOTE=Zenyatta;7428960]
The cost of showing has gotten so ridiculous, I stopped showing.[/QUOTE]
Seconded. And, I switched disciplines. I had a friend who has been a long, long time eventer mention that they are now being over-run by the ‘Tack Trunk Crowd’, as she calls the H/J. And there is a reason for this - affordability!
I make a healthy salary, and for years could afford a nice horse and to do a couple of large shows a year. A few years back I realized that though my salary had gone up proportionatly throughout the years, the costs of keeping a horse have significantly outstripped my salarly. When you could get a nice horse off the track, put the work in for a couple of years, you’d end up with a nice, compitive horse.
Now, not only are the prices of horses so far beyond my means, the price of boarding and training have so far gone beyond my salary that I’m effectively priced out. I ended up switching disciplines to a more affordable option.
PNWJumper has mentioned all the people who have stopped showing. I’ve seen the same thing (probably several of the same people, LOL). They’ve moved to eventing, or are just riding with a good trainer for the joy of it.
It’s a changing world, economically, and we are due for a correction (as economists would say). But unfortunately, the horse show world doesn’t see that - and won’t until they try to get blood for a turnip.
I’m noticing that a lot of our local BNT’s (and with Middleburg close, there’s quite a few) are coming out to our schooling shows more and more. It’s not unlikely you’ll be either competing with or jumping a course designed by Joe Fargis. Some of the high dollar farms won’t bother, but over the last few years I’ve seen more and more bigger name riders out there competing, including Olympians. It’s an easy way to get out for a day, and a lot of clients are starting to demand it because a lot of us poor little middle class folks just can’t keep up. I’ve also seen trainers that used to ONLY attend the A’s stepping down and “slumming” it with us. But hey, with Robert Redford as a sponsor and Joe designing courses, we have some pretty good options around here.
My farm is in a backyard that we rent. I meet up with my trainers at shows - always have. I’ve been fortunate to ride w/some great people because I have a nice enough horse and try to be relatively low maintenance. Plus we pack an EBTW tailgate, which I think has gotten many people to allow me to ride with them over the years.
But that’s kind of scraping by. If I had to put my two in a boarding/training situation, I’d probably try to sell or lease out my pony because the cost of supporting two would skyrocket beyond my means pretty quickly.
[QUOTE=ToTheNines;7428830]
I went to a local (non rated) two day show this weekend, and had a great time at a nice venue with two nice big indoor arenas. My office bill for two divisions, inluding stall, shavings, my share of the barn’s tack and feed stalls, all of it, was $295. The show manager also does rated shows, so the courses and jumps were all first rate. There were over 150 horses there, so it was well supported.
I wish there were more of this type of show. But our local BNT’s for the most part are not interested in them. They were all off to Katy (Houston) or bigger. But there are still some good trainers who will go to this type of local show. Especially the up and coming ones, or the ones that do not show themselves. Or BNT barns will send an assistant trainer.[/QUOTE]
I was at this show too. Office bill $264 for 2 days of showing at a former A show venue with great footing, A show experienced staff, all addbacks in the jumper ring, and A show jumps/course design. If all of our local shows were more like this, I think the A shows would be in serious trouble. I get the feeling from the number of horses that word is spreading - 158 horses on a weekend where there was an A show in Houston and a local show in Austin is pretty awesome turnout for a winter schooling show. Our barn will certainly be back, and with more horses next time. I will choose that every single time over a local show with supbar footing/jumps/courses or an A show that lasts twice as long and costs three (or four or five) times as much. At this point an A show offers me absolutely nothing that those shows cannot. I too wish that more local shows were like these… it would be fantastic.
Here’s my thing with this concept: If I’m on a green horse, or I am green to rated showing myself, going to 2-3 big shows a year is a waste of money. either myself or my horse will be overwhelmed by the atmosphere, the course, whatever. To be good at showing, you need to show…and you need to do it in similar environments. If Mr. Horse is used to jumping a box and a row of flowers and some plain poles at local shows probably set on lines a little short, he is going to flip his lid when he sees full built up jumps on a 13’+ line. It’s not fair to him to expect him to keep it together for a few shows a year when he doesn’t have the exposure. (and that’s not even bringing my nerves into the equation). You can’t get that experience without showing, but you can’t afford to show…
Few facilities in the country are capable of holding a AA rated date. If you have one you can usually figure out how to find a date to run one. I think you will find that finding a facility that meets rating demands and size of todays requirements, etc is more of a problem than acquiring a date.
Well, personally, I find the facility requirements for the rated levels ridiculous. A lot of them having very little to do with safe, quality shows and rather are focused on user-interface (jumbotrons, exhibitor parties, etc) which is all well and good but really means nothing to someone on their horse’s back. It’s fat…and it effectively narrows the competition to facilities that can provide that fat. Let’s face it, bacon tastes great, but turkey is better for you. Focus need to be on what makes the shows safe: good footing, safe stabling, well-designed courses, and good judges. The rest is fluff.
I will admit that in 20 or so years of showing, including the A circuit as a junior and some A shows now, I have attended exactly one exhibitor party and I think it was circa 1996.
I’ve attended a few exhibitor parties, but only for free food :lol:
