niedersuss vs. albion vs. schleese

[NewbieEventer]

For those that have ridden in or are “in-the-know” about saddles, what would you say is the general impression you have of the above manufacturer’s dressage saddles?

Niedersuss is supposedly the saddle of choice for the Spanish Riding School, which makes me think it must be a high quality saddle…though not sure if it’s only good for wide, lipizanner type horses. Have also heard only good things about albion and schleese saddles.

I’m particularly interested in:

• type of tree and comfort for horse (some trees, even if at correct width to fit horse, just isn’t accomodating enough for large movers)
• allowance for shoulder movement
• weight distribution of panels
• saddle shape (banana-shaped saddles do not fit horse)
• resale value
• general physic of horses/riders that the saddle tends to fit best
• any negatives or any reason why you might stay away from any of the above mentioned manufacturers

I know I’m eventually going to have to bite the bullet and go try a bunch of saddles, but I’m trying to do this with a bit of saddle knowledge to avoid huge trial/shipping costs. I could see myself easily spending a good many hundreds just in shipping back and forth various saddles.

[dressagediosa]

I had a client horse come in in a Niedersuss, and I thought it was a VERY hard saddle, not only for the horse, but for the rider. The tree also seemed quite flat. It looked like an older saddle, so they may be quite different now.

I love Albions, but I REALLY love the Detente saddles by Advanced Saddle Fit - www.advancedsaddlefit.com. They’re very similar in rider feel to the Albions, but have more tree styles than Albion’s two, and are about $1000 cheaper. ASF is a pleasure to deal with, and they’re aces at distance fittings.

[NewbieEventer]

[QUOTE=dressagediosa;4024862]
I had a client horse come in in a Niedersuss, and I thought it was a VERY hard saddle, not only for the horse, but for the rider. The tree also seemed quite flat. It looked like an older saddle, so they may be quite different now.

I love Albions, but I REALLY love the Detente saddles by Advanced Saddle Fit - www.advancedsaddlefit.com. They’re very similar in rider feel to the Albions, but have more tree styles than Albion’s two, and are about $1000 cheaper. ASF is a pleasure to deal with, and they’re aces at distance fittings.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, dressagediosa. I just read something about the Niedersuss saddles fitting well when the horse is at a standstill, but rather “stiff” when in motion. Not sure if I really understand the differences between the types of trees…are the materials different? Or is it the shape? What are the types of trees that Albions offer?

[blackhorse6]

Have only owned an Albion and Schleese of the 3 mentioned… Loved my Albion but each model fits differently for differently built horses. Not to mention if it fits the horse, it may not fit the rider. I now have a Schleese. They have so many models that fit not only the horse but the rider. I forget the name of the new saddle they have out but it is actually cut way back from the shoulder of the horse. Great for those big movers. I have the Wave and really like how it helps with put me in a correct position. Some people hate it because they fight the saddle. It also sits up off the L-spine of a horse… Especially good for shorter backed horses. I also like the fact I can get a rep. out to fit the saddle to my horse as he develops… Hope this helps:yes:

[NewbieEventer]

[QUOTE=blackhorse6;4024897]
Have only owned an Albion and Schleese of the 3 mentioned… Loved my Albion but each model fits differently for differently built horses. Not to mention if it fits the horse, it may not fit the rider. I now have a Schleese. They have so many models that fit not only the horse but the rider. I forget the name of the new saddle they have out but it is actually cut way back from the shoulder of the horse. Great for those big movers. I have the Wave and really like how it helps with put me in a correct position. Some people hate it because they fight the saddle. It also sits up off the L-spine of a horse… Especially good for shorter backed horses. I also like the fact I can get a rep. out to fit the saddle to my horse as he develops… Hope this helps:yes:[/QUOTE]

How much does it cost to have a rep. make the trip for a saddle fitting/re-fitting? And do they still offer the same service if you buy a used Schleese from a private individual?

[blackhorse6]

Yes, they continue to make visits for any saddle made by schleese. Some areas are fortunate and have a rep living near by… Others have a rep visit twice a yr… OK… don’t quote me on this but I believe it is $250 for an adjustment. In my eyes, anything is better than having to do a tracing and having the saddle sent away. I have yet to have one come back that really fits well. You can contact Schleese and ask these questions… just google for website. Good luck. :yes:

[blackhorse6]

www.schleese.com

[Bogie]

Niedersuss is supposedly the saddle of choice for the Spanish Riding School, which makes me think it must be a high quality saddle…though not sure if it’s only good for wide, lipizanner type horses. Have also heard only good things about albion and schleese saddles.
I don’t believe that Niedersuss is the saddle of the SRS – I believe that honor falls to Spirig.

I have owned both an Albion and a Schleese. I rode in a Niedersuss. From a quality standpoint, I don’t think it compares. I guess if it really fits your horse it would be a good saddle but it would not be my first choice. I like Albions a lot and think they are really good value.

My saddle fitter worked on my Schleese saddle no problem. When I had a Schleese I also use to get contacted regularly by the rep in my area regarding fittings. They were in the range of $140, more than what I pay my saddle fitter but not outrageous. I believe that was also for a tree adjustment. I bought mine on eBay and no one ever suggested they wouldn’t service it! In fact, I had them run the serial number for me ahead of time so I could double check what tree it was built on.

I’m not sure that the Schleese is worth the premium that they charge but if you can find one used you can sometimes get a real bargain.

Personally, I currently own a Roosli which my saddle fitter likes (but doesn’t sell) and which has fit most horses that I ride. I had it customized for me (I am very long in the thigh). There are so many flap configurations now that I think it’s possible to buy an “off the shelf” saddle to fit a number of rider body shapes. Once you start riding in saddles you’ll get a better sense of what will work for you. Beg rides from all of your friends to save on shipping costs. If you live close to a consignment shop you’ll save on shipping.

The last time I bought a dressage saddle I rode in about 15 saddles. Some I was able to make a decision on instantly; others I rode in a few times before rejecting them. When I sat in a Roosli I knew it would work for me and my horse.

[buck22]

Of your three, I’ve only had albion, which I adore but mine was a much older model, an original comfort, and I had to sell it as it was too flat for my curvy backed horse. The new owner is merrily riding her Hanno in it.

I’ve sat in many a schleese, not on my own horse, and it did not suit me. I know that the options are endless with them though, and they have many models to choose from, so if you like that saddler, surely they can find you a solution.

Is Niedersuss still being made? I always look at used ones, the Symphonie is the only model that piques my interest. They do look like nice saddles for wide horses, but the actual truly Wide tree is harder to find in my experience… Medium is generally the common find. I’ve read many reviews that they are nice balanced and hard as cement. They are exceedingly popular though.

All 3 saddlers seem to hold resale quite well, Niedersuss being the least so, or rather I should say lowest bracket of the 3, generally around $600-900 for a symphonie on ebay. Schleese has an ostergaard (sp?) version that does not seem to hold its resale as well as the others for some reason. Albion has early models produced under different names, like Lux and Mansion House, so there are opportunities for bargain hunters.

I don’t know what your prices ranges are, or what your goals are (find a used bargain versus buying new), and what might help would be a description of the horse you’re trying to fit… just how wide is he/she? regular wide or super massive impossibly wide? :lol:

There are zillions of saddlers out there that turn out a fine product though, beyond the 3 you listed. I’ve found my salvation for my hard to fit pony in a Ludomar… who would’ve ever guessed?:lol:

[NewbieEventer]

[QUOTE=Bogie;4025045]
I have owned both an Albion and a Schleese. I rode in a Niedersuss. From a quality standpoint, I don’t think it compares. I guess if it really fits your horse it would be a good saddle but it would not be my first choice. I like Albions a lot and think they are really good value.[QUOTE]

How would you compare the Albion vs. Schleese ? Also, which Albion dressage saddle(s) have you ridden in? I’m leaning towards an Albion at the moment, but am not sure which one to try first.

Schleese is quite tempting as well, especially with the “lifetime” adjustability factor. Anyone know the average cost of a new schleese dressage saddle?

[NewbieEventer]

Oh I know the options are pretty much endless…I’m trying hard to pick a few “top” candidates to start trying. As far as budget, it’s not really that strict. I appreciate a good deal as much as anyone, but not at the expense of quality/comfort for the horse.

Buck22, can you describe what you didn’t like about the Scleese saddles you sat in?

And a description of the horse I’m trying to fit:

• Pronounced/prominant withers, though I wouldn’t really call them “shark-finned”
• Back is probably considered medium to medium wide
• Shape of back is fairly gentle curve/tending towards flat (definately not banana-shaped!)
• he’s a large mover both in front and behind

[ChelseaA]

Schleese is quite tempting as well, especially with the “lifetime” adjustability factor. Anyone know the average cost of a new schleese dressage saddle?

Approx. 1 year ago I bought my new schlasse for $4500.
It is now for sale- so if anyone is interested just PM me.
It’s a 17’ seat, and the “dressage derby” model.

I’m also selling a 16.5 (I think) inch Steffen Peters saddle from Custom Saddlery. It has a medium wide tree. Purchased for $2600.
Both prices are very negotiable at this point.

Both saddles are in SUPER condition.

[NewbieEventer]

Albion dressage saddles…

What’s the difference between the SLK Ultima, SLK, and SL ? And what’s the difference between “high head” and “low head” on the SLK?

[Bogie]

Let’s see. I had an Albion Original Comfort dressage saddle and two of the A/P saddles which I used mostly for dressage. I like a wider twist and both of those saddles were comfortable for me.

I owned at least one of those saddles for 8 years and it held up beautifully. The leather was nice, the seat was comfortable and it seemed to be quite horse friendly (the early Niedersuss saddles were konwn as “back breakers” because so many of the horses ended up with back problems. However, that’s no longer a problem).

My only complaint about the Albions is that the way the panels were designed (my saddles were older) the wool seemed to shift more. I had them evaluated 2x/year by my saddle fitter and they almost always needed a small adjustment. I found that the saddle was very nicely balanced for me.

The Schleese saddle I owned was a jumping saddle. The leather was gorgeous and it had a very wide gullet (to the point where I wondered whether it was almost too wide). Do I think their saddle was nicer the Albion? Maybe the leather was nicer. But from a riding perspective, I didn’t see it was worth the extra $$. Schleese spends a lot more on marketing their saddles as premium and I think that’s passed along to the consumer. Mine was wool flocked. Schleese also sells saddles with FLAIR panels. There are a lot of opinions about FLAIR, probably enough for an entirely new post!

I asked the saddle fitter I worked with about the ajustability of trees when I saw him a few weeks ago. His answer is that almost all saddles have trees that can be adjusted. I asked him how many times you could adjust a tree without adversely impacting the integrity of its structure and he said twice (I’ve heard this from another source as well but right now can’t remember where). I asked him specifically about saddles like Schleese and DK which use lifetime adjustability as a marketing point and he repeated that he felt it was a two-time deal except for Kieffer trees. Kieffer trees are made from a synthetic material reinforced with fiberglass. Unlike conventional trees which are adjusted using pressure, the Kieffer trees are adjusted using an infrared process.

Note: I’m not mentioning the name of the saddle fitter I use since I don’t want to put him on the spot if I’ve quoted him incorrectly. If you want to know who it is, PM me.

[quote=NewbieEventer;4025063]

[quote=Bogie;4025045]I have owned both an Albion and a Schleese. I rode in a Niedersuss. From a quality standpoint, I don’t think it compares. I guess if it really fits your horse it would be a good saddle but it would not be my first choice. I like Albions a lot and think they are really good value.

How would you compare the Albion vs. Schleese ? Also, which Albion dressage saddle(s) have you ridden in? I’m leaning towards an Albion at the moment, but am not sure which one to try first.

Schleese is quite tempting as well, especially with the “lifetime” adjustability factor. Anyone know the average cost of a new schleese dressage saddle?

[meupatdoes]

It is my understanding that the good people at Albion do the saddles for the SRS.

At least that is the impression I got when I was talking to one of the owners of the company when they were in their booth at DAD and we were trading stories about Vienna.

As for the distinctions between the SLK Ultima and the SLK, etc, it is my understanding that it comes down to the leather used.

I could be incorrect on both points, but that is the impression I got during my conversations with them when I was ordering a saddle from them.

(Btw, the customer service? Out of this world. I loff them.)

[NewbieEventer]

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;4025303]
It is my understanding that the good people at Albion do the saddles for the SRS.

At least that is the impression I got when I was talking to one of the owners of the company when they were in their booth at DAD and we were trading stories about Vienna.

As for the distinctions between the SLK Ultima and the SLK, etc, it is my understanding that it comes down to the leather used.

I could be incorrect on both points, but that is the impression I got during my conversations with them when I was ordering a saddle from them.

(Btw, the customer service? Out of this world. I loff them.)[/QUOTE]

Did you order direct from Albion? Or through a Albion dealer?

[HFSH]

I’ve ridden in at least 1 saddle from each saddle maker.

The Nieder – OUCH. The stirrup bars were not recessed and I had nasty black n blue marks on my thighs. The seat was HARD. I hated the saddle.

Albion – I have owned a few. Currently ride in one. LOVE them. Very comfortable for horse and rider. Nice wide channel for the horse.

Schleese – about the same. Some of the saddles tho are made for a different shape of body. Wide variety, really nice saddle tho.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=NewbieEventer;4025310]
Did you order direct from Albion? Or through a Albion dealer?[/QUOTE]

I placed my initial order with a saddle fitter that represents Albion (as one of many different brands she works with), and then since I was buying a h/j saddle and they were in the process of developing a new h/j model, she invited me to come out to Dressage at Devon (the most recent one) and meet the owners of the company and talk to them directly.

So, sort of a combination of the two.

The customer service was unbelievable, and at about half pricing of some of the h/j saddles… let’s just say I will be buying all future h/j saddles at dressage shows.

[asterix]

I have an Albion SL – my saddle fitter said the SLK is a much wider twist, and I needed a narrower twist. I love it! got it used for a very good price.
My horses are high withers, wide trees, fairly flat backs.

The Custom Steffen Peters fit them well but it was WAY too wide for me…

[amastrike]

I’ve ridden in an Albion and own a Niedersuss.

The Albion is fantastically comfortable. It’s like sitting on a couch. But IMO the leather isn’t all that great, at least not for what they cost.

Niedersuss is comfortable and fits me and my horse really well. I can ride in it all day long. The panels are fairly hard, but I have a sheepskin/Ultra Thinline pad and so don’t worry about it. But even with just a plain ThinLine, my horse never had back problems (chiro checks him regularly) and the saddle fitter saw no reason to reflock it. I think the leather on it is really nice, too. For about $900 used, the Niedersuss is definitely worth the price.

NewbieEventer, you pretty much described my horse’s back. He’s a medium/medium-wide (in the Collegiate easy-change gullet system). Prominent withers, but not terrible. Here’s a picture of him so you can compare to your horse’s back. With the ThinLine saddle fitter pad (sheepskin with Ultra ThinLine shims), my medium tree Niedersuss is a perfect fit.