No Oxers In Short/Long Stirrup Divisions?

[vxf111]

It looks like maybe 10 people came to the show total. Is the “day dragging on” really an issue?? I feel like you can cross that bridge when you come to it, in the future.

If you set it up into actual divisions (1-2 o/f and a hack per division) and separate open divisions from jr/ammy classes-- you’ll have much more flexibility to tailor to people’s needs, probably make more money, and have less confusion. I really would mimic more the way rated shows split into divisions.

Instead of…

NAME OF CLASS U/S (mixed pro/non-pro)
NAME OF CLASS O/F PRO
NAME OF CLASS O/F NON-PRO

Do…

PRO CLASS U/S
PRO CLASS O/F #1
PRO CLASS O/F #2

NON-PRO CLASS U/S
NON-PRO CLASS O/F #1
NON-PRO CLASS O/F #2

Then you can put the oxers up for the pro class and drop the back rails for the non-pro classes. Plus everyone gets to jump 2x which is a much better learning experience. And people will be paying for more classes. Win, win all around. Given your low turnout, why not take the people you have and get them doing more rounds/paying more rather than creating really-non-division things where at most they get to jump once and hack once and that’s it?!

The way you have it set up just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. And because every “division” is mixed pro/non-pro there’s no easy way for you to put more challenges in divisions where they belong (for pro or non-restricted riders) while leaving them out of classes where they do belong.

Plus the way you have it set up makes the points all kinds of goofy. Everyone is splitting the U/S points? Or you’re doing California splits or what!? Either way… that’s sort of crazy. And it means trainers have to compete against their clients in the U/S. It’s just kind of goofy.

[RPM]

Does your local h/j association set the standards for all the shows in your region (even local barn schooling shows)? If so, go by their rules.

I think the h/j association where I used to live did not have oxers in SS/LS. I don’t know about other divisions. Is there a division between classes with actual courses and classes (e.g., SS/LS) that are just inside-inside, outside-outside around in a circle? Maybe there is a rule that says no oxers in those classes?

Every local h/j association is different, isn’t it?

If just one barn is complaining about the oxers, sounds to me like that trainer is looking for an advantage for her riders? If ALL barns are complaining about the oxers, that’s different.

But if your local h/j association sets the rules for all the local shows, then go by their rule book.

[Equitational]

Being that the shows are in summer, and having the show end at lunch time (and avoid high 90-100+ was a plus.

I had 17 horse second show and 27 the first show. I would like have 40+. I already have 19 classes for the one Hunter ring, I thought that was an adequate amount for one day. If i did the divisons above, I would have over 30 classes for on ring on one day. For the divisons the jr/am have a bonus being able to do three classes and pros can only do two.

I did have my first two shows on holidays (mothers day and Father’s Day). It was not my intention to do that, I didn’t even know it was special Sunday’s until after I set my dates. I tried to not conflict with any big shows in the south region. Footing has always been a complaint of the facility in the past, and theyve been trying to improve it.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=RPM;8232820]
Does your local h/j association set the standards for all the shows in your region (even local barn schooling shows)? If so, go by their rules.

I think the h/j association where I used to live did not have oxers in SS/LS. I don’t know about other divisions. Is there a division between classes with actual courses and classes (e.g., SS/LS) that are just inside-inside, outside-outside around in a circle? Maybe there is a rule that says no oxers in those classes?

Every local h/j association is different, isn’t it?

If just one barn is complaining about the oxers, sounds to me like that trainer is looking for an advantage for her riders? If ALL barns are complaining about the oxers, that’s different.

But if your local h/j association sets the rules for all the local shows, then go by their rule book.[/QUOTE]
My show is not governed by any local association. I did look up the bigger local show association specs and there is nothing stating oxers vs no oxers. Only height and cross entry restrictions.

[Equitational]

Yes at this point it is just one barn complaining about oxers. I asked for feedback from another trainer/barn who did the same Hunter classes. That trainer said she was fine with oxers in the 2ft and was expecting them. Said there usually is oxers in 2ft classes (just not cross bars).

[woodhillsmanhattan]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8232821]
Being that the shows are in summer, and having the show end at lunch time (and avoid high 90-100+ was a plus.

I had 17 horse second show and 27 the first show. I would like have 40+. I already have 19 classes for the one Hunter ring, I thought that was an adequate amount for one day. If i did the divisons above, I would have over 30 classes for on ring on one day. For the divisons the jr/am have a bonus being able to do three classes and pros can only do two.

I did have my first two shows on holidays (mothers day and Father’s Day). It was not my intention to do that, I didn’t even know it was special Sunday’s until after I set my dates. I tried to not conflict with any big shows in the south region. Footing has always been a complaint of the facility in the past, and theyve been trying to improve it.[/QUOTE]

Going from 19 to 30 classes doesn’t necessarily mean your day will be much longer. You will likely just spread the wealth amongst competitors. I think you would get the same # of entries regardless.

I would have one open division (open to Pros and Jr/Am) that is offered at multiple fence heights but is pinned together. I.e. Open Schooling Hunter (offered at 2’, 2’3, 2’6, etc.). You can run this throughout the day with the respective heights and then pin at the end of the day. Take away warm-ups if you have them, as this class could serve as the warm up. Run the under saddle either first thing or last thing. There is another benefit to this, as pros can do two classes at two different fence heights if they are working with trying to move a green horse up a level or what have you. Make it a rule in the prize list that they must indicate what height they will show at by the start of the horse show or with their entries or whatever you decide will make the show run easily. This also will be in your favor, as pros won’t be entering one horse in a billion classes. The pro will only be eligible for 1 division (2 classes + under saddle) with that horse. This will help keep your days short hopefully!

Then have Jr/Am classes that are pinned separately with the fence height. I.E. Beginner Hunter 2’ division, Intermediate Hunter 2’3 division, Pre-Children/Adult 2’6 division, etc. (or whatever you want to name them). I wouldn’t worry about splitting up adults and kids until you are consistently getting more than 6 in a class. But once you do separate adults and juniors, run them together but pin separate.

As far as oxers, I think as long as you are consistent and it is stated on the prize list you can decide for yourself if you keep them in the 2’ or not. Given the pictures you provided, I think oxers are just fine at the 2’. If you had wide boxes and coops and such I would probably feel differently. Maybe as an intermediate between the 18’ verticals and the 2’ oxers offer a single hunter hack class with a line of two 2’ verticals?

Thanks for volunteering! Not many are willing to step up to the plate and it is obvious that you want to do the best you can. You seem dedicated and I bet it will all fall into place in the future.

[Pennywell_Bay]

It must be different in CA then the schooling shows back East, where the pros are rarely riding in the same classes as their clients, unless they are showing a greenie. Not all, but I can think of 2 very well attended shows series back home this isn’t an issue. In those classes that I have seen (and guest judged) the clients did fine against the 1 or 2 “pros” who showed.

[poltroon]

I personally would suggest adding more clarity, and perhaps having your two classes at the height be one with oxers, one without.

So you have your Future Hunter 2’ class - make the first class the Jr/Am and no oxers. Make the second class open with oxers. Be extremely explicit in the classlist.

This way, people who don’t want to do oxers can do only the first class; people who are squeamish get a warmup without oxers; people who are having a tough day can scratch the oxer class; people who are being successful will get to jump little confidence building oxers. Make the oxers as tight as possible with a low first element for your 2’ classes. Everyone gets clarity of what to expect.

There are lots of tricks to making a course inviting and confidence building. It might be worth picking the brains of a very experienced CD type at your earliest opportunity if you are doing the CD. Also it’s completely legitimate to use a local pro whose riders are riding to do the course design, if there’s someone whose judgement you trust.

I’m certain the venue has the safety cups, since they are holding recognized eventing competitions.

[pebbles47]

It appears that the show manager wasn’t interested in accommodating the exhibitors and was more interested in attacking the trainer who put her riders’ best interest first.

[pebbles47]

Wow! You are going to fight this battle to the end just to not be wrong. Why don’t you simply admit that in most who have responded here confirmed that most short stirrup classes have no oxers? And why don’t you cater to your audience? These are kids at a schooling show and their trainer knows what is best for their students. Sounds like you have a personal issue with the trainer? Little kids have a home court advantage? And to somehow believe that more cross rail classes will resolve the issue ignores the fact that kids want a challenge where they won’t feel over-faced. Perhaps one of them had a bad fall and was trying to rebuild their confidence? There could be any number of reasons they didn’t want to jump oxers that particular I have learned that constructive criticism, if listened to, can be helpful.

[JustJump]

What are your qualifications to be a ‘show manager?’

[pebbles47]

Thank you. That is exactly how I interpreted the posts.

[Couture_TB]

Every schooling show and B show I have been to has oxers in the 2’ and 2’3 division.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=pebbles47;8234273]
Wow! You are going to fight this battle to the end just to not be wrong. Why don’t you simply admit that in most who have responded here confirmed that most short stirrup classes have no oxers? And why don’t you cater to your audience? These are kids at a schooling show and their trainer knows what is best for their students. Sounds like you have a personal issue with the trainer? Little kids have a home court advantage? And to somehow believe that more cross rail classes will resolve the issue ignores the fact that kids want a challenge where they won’t feel over-faced. Perhaps one of them had a bad fall and was trying to rebuild their confidence? There could be any number of reasons they didn’t want to jump oxers that particular I have learned that constructive criticism, if listened to, can be helpful.[/QUOTE]

Have you read all the posts on the last few pages?

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=pebbles47;8234256]
It appears that the show manager wasn’t interested in accommodating the exhibitors and was more interested in attacking the trainer who put her riders’ best interest first.[/QUOTE]

It was only one or two exhibitors. Asked all the other trainers who attended, and they didn’t have problems with oxers at 2ft and 2’3" level. And it wasn’t just the 2ft classes that was complained about, they also didn’t want oxers at the 2’3" either. I’ve never been to a show when a CD accommodated one person at a show?

[Equitational]

What if the complaint had been, the riders horse or pony didon’t like the yellow flowers? So if I don’t take out all the yellow flowers, they will scratch the class?

Show courses are posted in the mornings. If you’re not ready for them, you should scratch.

Let’s be clear, I am open to constructive criticism from my shows, which I why I took someone’s opinion to add more cross bar classes next year (since that is my biggest class entry wise of the show). But when people are rude and nasty, it tends to warrant opposite responses. if a lot of people are asking for vertical only classes, then I will listen.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8234387]
It was only one or two exhibitors. Asked all the other trainers who attended, and they didn’t have problems with oxers at 2ft and 2’3" level. And it wasn’t just the 2ft classes that was complained about, they also didn’t want oxers at the 2’3" either. I’ve never been to a show when a CD accommodated one person at a show?[/QUOTE]

Insert eye rolls here. Of course they didn’t have problems with it, nor did they have any students entered in those classes so it didn’t affect them at all. So what you did is that you had a tiff with one trainer, who scratched her kids and left, then you went around gossiping about it with every other trainer that came? Talk about drama. And lack of professionalism. I wouldn’t worry about the oxer issue because that trainer will likely never be back to your shows again.

[Pennywell_Bay]

If the trainer has home court advantage and you are now digging in your heels. (Perspective: over a freaking oxer in a 2 ft class), do you think perhaps if trainer is tired of you, and students are not entering, you will be removed as SM?

Seriously why not try NO oxer for 2 foot and see if anyone complains. I think you are being way too combative over this situation.

You want to hear “you are right”, but people are trying to give you a different perspective than what you want to hear. So, you are right. Set the oxer up for 2 foot and just screw clientele. I’m certain it will work out fantastic, and you’ll win.

[arapaloosa_lady]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8234387]
It was only one or two exhibitors. Asked all the other trainers who attended, and they didn’t have problems with oxers at 2ft and 2’3" level. And it wasn’t just the 2ft classes that was complained about, they also didn’t want oxers at the 2’3" either. I’ve never been to a show when a CD accommodated one person at a show?[/QUOTE]

How many other trainers were there with only 17 exhibitors?

No oxers in a 2 ft class is a reasonable request. It sounds like you’re just feeling combative because you didn’t like her attitude.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=arapaloosa_lady;8234547]
How many other trainers were there with only 17 exhibitors?

No oxers in a 2 ft class is a reasonable request. It sounds like you’re just feeling combative because you didn’t like her attitude.[/QUOTE]
Yeah maybe that’s it. But they also had a request for no oxers at 2’3", which from everyones opinion, they always have oxers at the level.
So if in my next premium, specify no oxers at one class, exhibitors would assume oxers in the other classes where not specified. Again, the show premiums and local associated specs I looked up didn’t say anything about having no oxers. So how are you to know if there will be or not be oxers? Unless it’s clearly labeled…if it’s not clearly descriptive, would you assume oxers?