No Oxers In Short/Long Stirrup Divisions?

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8234598]
Yeah maybe that’s it. But they also had a request for no oxers at 2’3", which from everyones opinion, they always have oxers at the level.
So if in my next premium, specify no oxers at one class, exhibitors would assume oxers in the other classes where not specified. Again, the show premiums and local associated specs I looked up didn’t say anything about having no oxers. So how are you to know if there will be or not be oxers? Unless it’s clearly labeled…if it’s not clearly descriptive, would you assume oxers?[/QUOTE]

Good question. I’d assume oxers at 2’3 and up. Again, I agree that a 2 foot oxer shouldn’t be an issue, but it is (eye roll). Perhaps an asterisk on the show bill saying oxers at 2’3 and up? (I’d be annoyed at the tude as well, but think customer service and “bless your heart” when dealing with it).
Fwiw- congrats on volunteering. Sometimes it’s a thankless job.

[Equitational]

Maybe for my next show, I should post next years class list. If anyone has anything to say (opinions or complaints) that would be the time to give me feedback. If not, forever hold your peace?

For those who don’t have oxers in their 2ft divisions (or 2’3") can you send me, or post, your associations (or show) description of the division?

[Equitational]

I’m wondering that maybe I didn’t have complaints (or rather nasty comments) during the first show, because I had a well know show manager (and USEF R judge) for the hunter judge? She probably wouldn’t have taken anyone’s attitude. I kept asking her throughout the day how the courses were riding, and she thought they were riding just fine.

[Addison]

The jump set as an oxer with a crossrail on the front standards and the backrail set lower than the front cups is not safe. The front rails are trapped by the vertical rail and will not fall easily.

If safety cups are not available (they are expensive and sometimes disappear at shows) wooden dowels or even pencils are a good option to use on back rails of an oxer. No matter what the height is, a breakaway option is always best.

[GoodTimes]

I haven’t read the whole thread so someone may have already mentioned this, but I see absolutely no problem with having oxers in a 2’ or 2’3" division. If they aren’t capable of jumping an oxer at this height then either a)they shouldn’t be showing or b)they should find a cross rail division.

Heck 2’3" is small pony height!

In Ontario both the A shows and Trillium (B level) shows have oxers in the short stirrup divisions. A young girl is leasing one of my horses to show the 2’3" at the Trillium shows and their courses are identical to the AA’s and childrens that show later in the day in the same ring, just lower and less fill.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=GoodTimes;8235817]
I haven’t read the whole thread so someone may have already mentioned this, but I see absolutely no problem with having oxers in a 2’ or 2’3" division. If they aren’t capable of jumping an oxer at this height then either a)they shouldn’t be showing or b)they should find a cross rail division.

Heck 2’3" is small pony height!

In Ontario both the A shows and Trillium (B level) shows have oxers in the short stirrup divisions. A young girl is leasing one of my horses to show the 2’3" at the Trillium shows and their courses are identical to the AA’s and childrens that show later in the day in the same ring, just lower and less fill.[/QUOTE]

Though generally I agree with you, this is a schooling show so apples and oranges. Not disparaging, but looking at the pictures from the photographer, some of them just might not be ready. These aren’t A level or even rated kids and adults prepping for indoors or WEF. It’s supposed to be fun- no? They have to get the mileage somehow. I don’t get why some are that afraid of an oxer, they just are afraid. Saying carte blanche “they should do an oxer or not show” is a tad elitist. (I think they should do it but they feel they can’t. It’s a freaking schooling show. Why all the push for oxers at 2 foot). If that is the attitude, notice some of the jumps are not even rated legal (front cups set higher than back rail/cups) so it is really not on the same playing field.

[asb_own_me]

Aaaand we’ve found the “trainer”. :lol::lol::lol:

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;8235839]
Aaaand we’ve found the “trainer”. :lol::lol::lol:[/QUOTE]

Who? (certainly not me. I show 3’6 rated, am an ammy and live far away).

[asb_own_me]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8235844]
Who? (certainly not me. I show 3’6 rated, am an ammy and live far away).[/QUOTE]

Oh, not you! “Pebbles47”, the angry troll on page 5 with back-to-back posts to just so happened to join COTH over the weekend. Since there was no schooling show to complain about IRL, Pebbles apparently decided to join COTH for a little rant!

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;8235855]
Oh, not you! “Pebbles47”, the angry troll on page 5 with back-to-back posts to just so happened to join COTH over the weekend. Since there was no schooling show to complain about IRL, Pebbles apparently decided to join COTH for a little rant![/QUOTE]

ba ha ha. Now I can continue w/ my clever shammy front (just kidding).
How did I miss that? I’m sure it is going to be very comfortable at the next show for all involved. Sigh.

[OveroHunter]

OP, something very similar happened to me once… No good deed goes unpunished!

DH was on the board or something for the GA Paint Horse Club and they decided to hold a big show at GIHP with some over fences classes. These classes are not popular at all at the paint shows in our area so no one knew what to do. I wanted to show my gelding in the classes, but somehow got TOLD that I would have to be the CD as well…

Yeah, an amateur competitor in the class was supposed to be the CD…

I looked up the APHA rules on height, striding, and jump placement to make sure I stayed within the rule book. IIRC the jumps were supposed to be around 2’6 - 2’9. One of my jumps was a brick wall that may have been 2’3 with a pole over it. It wasn’t wide at all… Just a normal sized solid.

Everyone freaked out. “The jumps are too big!” “We can’t jump that wall!” A kid even fell off at it… Basically what I learned is that the other shows didn’t actually put the fences up to the heights they were supposed to and just had verticals with no solid fillers.

I had only ever shown on the H/J circuit where this would have been considered an easy course. LESSON LEARNED!

[findeight]

[QUOTE=pebbles47;8234256]
It appears that the show manager wasn’t interested in accommodating the exhibitors and was more interested in attacking the trainer who put her riders’ best interest first.[/QUOTE]

Public service quote

[Equitational]

Hey, I just started this thread to see if there was usually oxers at 2’ and 2’3" division. Since there are not any USEF sepcs for these types of divisions, there’s no “right” answer, just a GENERAL opinion.

Like I said above, for those with local associations with good divisions specs, if you could post what yours say, that may be helpful for me. Next year I will write up specs for each division (and make class title even more descriptive). I already added an extra cross-bar and vertical only class (then I go the normal, old divisions). Problem is, getting competitors to READ the specs before entering show…

And let me be clear, the actual trainer/riders who made the complaints didn’t (and still haven’t) said anything directly to me (on that show day or after). Attitude was coming from a different person from that barn, who I don’t believe is a show mom or rider…In fact, I don’t know the trainer or barn well in fact, I don’t think I have ever actually talked to that trainer.

[Equitational]

Lets take a vote.

If there were classes that clearly said no oxers (or trotting allowed), would you assume that all other classes that don’t specify would include oxers or trotting wasn’t allowed?

[findeight]

[QUOTE=pebbles47;8234273]
Wow! You are going to fight this battle to the end just to not be wrong. Why don’t you simply admit that in most who have responded here confirmed that most short stirrup classes have no oxers? And why don’t you cater to your audience? These are kids at a schooling show and their trainer knows what is best for their students. Sounds like you have a personal issue with the trainer? Little kids have a home court advantage? And to somehow believe that more cross rail classes will resolve the issue ignores the fact that kids want a challenge where they won’t feel over-faced. Perhaps one of them had a bad fall and was trying to rebuild their confidence? There could be any number of reasons they didn’t want to jump oxers that particular I have learned that constructive criticism, if listened to, can be helpful.[/QUOTE]

Hers the other one from the trainer…or parent.

But she’s wrong. “Most” on here have not “confirmed” SS classes have no oxers. Far from it, very regional thing in this unrated and not nationally regulated class.

For OP, there is something called “Right fighting”. Proving you are right at all costs. You may be right if you believe watering down courses is wrong but you are as wrong as pebbles47 because there are NO rules to back either side. You may end up thinking you got the last word here but get relieved of your duties- never alienate a paying client over unwritten policies.

Anybody with any customer service background can tell you that and I bet some have within this thread, so have those with a background working at shows where you learn to be aware of the difference between following rules and getting sucked into a pi*sing contest that alientates somebody who paid to be there.

If I were OP, I would delete that post naming the show with the pictures of your exhibitors. Some negative things have been said and anybody Googling the name is going to see this thread, their pictures and all the comments. If I was shopping for a schooling show? I’d skip this one.

Oh, please tell me it was not at your show and nobody had to jump that green and yellow thing linked to. There are specific, written rules about that.

Finally, after deleting that post, why not put a short poll in with your back numbers. ASK the people who support your show what they would like to see. None of your divisions are nationally rated and you are not affiliated with any other club/association. Avoid being right and losing customers and your position.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8235986]
Lets take a vote.

If there were classes that clearly said no oxers (or trotting allowed), would you assume that all other classes that don’t specify would include oxers or trotting wasn’t allowed?[/QUOTE]

OK, my local association has no oxers at 2’ but does in 2’3" which is SS height. The only classes where trotting and simple changes are not penalized is a 2’3" Beginner Hunter, they are penalized in SS. That has been the case for most, if not all ( can’t remember any that did it different) of the affiliates and local organizations I have been familiar with.

But that is in their rule book. You don’t have a rule book and don’t spell it out for each class on your prize list. That leaves you wide open for a variety of interpretations and that always leads to conflict with the “everybody knows”, “I never heard that before” and bogus USEF rule recitation.

Whatever you end up doing, put it right on your prize list

SS Hunter, fences 2’3 incl. oxers.

Beginner Hunter, fences 2’, no oxers, trotting not penalized.

2’ 6" Hunter, no in and outs.

Those are typical examples on prize lists even backed up by written rules, that way there is no misunderstanding and no arguments, just make sure the judge knows what is and is not penalized too.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8235969]

And let me be clear, the actual trainer/riders who made the complaints didn’t (and still haven’t) said anything directly to me (on that show day or after). Attitude was coming from a different person from that barn, who I don’t believe is a show mom or rider…In fact, I don’t know the trainer or barn well in fact, I don’t think I have ever actually talked to that trainer.[/QUOTE]

Let me get this right. You came on COTH and posted this whole thing about how the trainer didn’t want the kid jumping oxers and threw a fit because you wouldn’t take them out, and withdrew all her kids so the classes had to be cancelled – but it turns out that you never actually talked to the trainer at all, you just talked to some random person from the barn who may or may not speak for the trainer’s feelings about anything and who the trainer has no way of controlling their “attitude”? why didn’t you say this before post 112?

Listen, the trainer did not actually make a real complaint if they didn’t make them directly to you. they might have bitched in the barn about something but they weren’t complaining to management. something people do when their ponies are fresh and they have to scratch, but not meant for management to take as a personal affront or official complaint about the show if they hear about it later from someone else. This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot.

They had a bad day, someone repeated something to you they shouldn’t, let it go. The trainer appears not to actually have complained to you about the oxers. They knew they were there, they jumped them the last time, the pony wasn’t ready to do it that day, they scratched. Called “life with horses”.

[findeight]

Forgot to mention something.

11&under Equitation does not do oxers around here. I have no idea if that is a USEF rule (if it is I can’t find it), a USHJA thing, zone rule or just an affiliate rule that can vary by region, but there might be a grain of truth in the no oxers at 2’-2’3" claim.

Shows I work at, we build that way. If we have an Open Eq with 11&under riders, we drop the back rail for them, put it back up fir the 12&up but they are judged together in a combined class, and small shows usually do combine the age group Eq or just offer Open, raise and add the back rail for the older ones.

All the more reason to write out what your class specs are as a totally independent show. That’s going to be based on what your exhibitors will come show in, not necessarily what you think they should be doing.

[rugbygirl]

[QUOTE=Equitational;8234639]
Maybe for my next show, I should post next years class list. If anyone has anything to say (opinions or complaints) that would be the time to give me feedback. If not, forever hold your peace?

For those who don’t have oxers in their 2ft divisions (or 2’3") can you send me, or post, your associations (or show) description of the division?[/QUOTE]

Ours just say, right on the prize list “2’ maximum height, verticals and cross rails, no oxers”

I wouldn’t be upset to see oxers in the 2’ if that WASN’T on the prize list, but it seems like the common accepted practice in our local circuits, including the EC rated shows, where the 2’ hunters is an unrated division. At many of the shows, the course is identical to the upper divisions, they leave the standards for the oxer in place, and move the rails.

[inca]

http://www.ghhja.com/prizelists/jul2015/July%20Classic%20Horse%20Show%202015%20GHHJA%20Final%20for%20web.pdf

Our show circuit is big and has great year-end awards. The shows are well run and everyone knows what to expect ahead of time.

However, this is the “top” local circuit and there are several other local circuits that are much smaller. Some of the smaller local circuits are not as well run and tend to have their own rules.

Is does appear that the vast majority are used to the 2’ division NOT having oxers. However, you seem to have your mind made up that this is ridiculous. So, just put on your prize list that all divisions will have oxers. Then people can decide up front if they want to come or not.

I will say, one of the first shows that our circuit offered long/short stirrup, they accidentally had oxers (against class specs.) Since the first several competitors jumped around, they refused to take them down. After momentarily complaining that the class wasn’t supposed to have oxers, everyone else jumped around. But, even our verticals have boxes and fillers so no one is expecting to go in and see a 2’ vertical with just a pole.