Thank you Ms. Salem! I’ve always admired your teaching, and it’s always a pleasure to watch your horses go.
[QUOTE=Jsalem;7720808]
Miguel,
- You’re not the norm.
- You’re gonna do fine.
- Best of luck to you, my young friend.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=miguelwilson2;7720719]
I feel like there’s a slight taste of resentment towards less fortunate riders in this thread. Let me begin by saying that I am 15 years old, I have never owned a horse, and my financial situation is less than ideal. I know I might be the exception but: I will ride anything, I’m not afraid to get dirty, and I want to learn anything and everything about this business.
I missed my 8th grade graduation to go to Devon to groom. My school had an 'Awards Night', and I wasn't there to accept my honor of being one of the few to get all A's because I was at the barn. I'm thankful to anyone that's helped me in my riding because I know they didn't have to help me. No one has to tell me to take the stirrups off of my saddle. In fact, somedays I'll take my stirrups off, and ride up to six horses without them. I took the initiative and told my parents I wanted to start online school because I knew I needed to ride as much as I could.
I've moved away from my family, and found sponsors (thanks to the help of my dad) to pay my show entries. I was the one typing those emails to trainers looking for working students. I was on the phone calling people asking for money. I've even started a foundation to help under-privileged children get introduced to horses. I am the most dedicated person you'll ever meet. It's hard watching kids younger than you reach your goals. It's hard waking up at 4 AM to help lunge ponies, and not even getting to ride that day. It's hard getting rejected over and over again. You're horse could be a leopard-spotted mutt, and I'd still give it the best ride I can.
All I ask from you all (the pros and owners of this sport) is a little help. It can be a chance to hack your ponies, an opportunity to jog a junior hunter, or even a chance to show something on my own bill. This is not me being entitled, this is me saying I could be really amazing someday, but all I need is a little help TODAY.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes with all the resources in the world it still doesn’t work out the way we want it to. Life has a path… yes work hard but don’t expect anyone to do anything for you or feel bad for you. You don’t know someones journey even if they appear to now be a success and have everything.
I grew up with the love of horses and parents that didn’t spend a lot on me. Soon after their divorce I was lucky to get child support to pay for my horses board. It wasn’t easy. I rode anything and everything at the barn (mostly off hte track race horses) not only did it make me a better rider it taught me to work hard and goals happen. But with horses, you must learn to be flexible. It’s not on our time schedule, it’s on theirs.
As an older rider now; my husband and I built a successful business and a happy family. But on the horse front; I have been trying to get to the show ring for it seems like 20 years. Lameness after strange issue has occurred and not because I didn’t have the money. It just happens.
I read something that I think applies to so many people these days; happiness does not depend on what you have or who you are… it relies on what you think!
I think… work hard, be happy and do for those that you feel like helping. Everyone is individual and if you want something bad enough, make it happen.
Some of the most successful athletes are not rich in money but rich in drive and hard work…
edited to add I agree with Jsalem - you will do fine!!! Attitude is a big part of success…
[QUOTE=justathought;7721470]
There are plenty of riders with sufficient talent but insufficient opportunity to develop it.[/QUOTE]
You create your opportunities…
[QUOTE=doublesstable;7721548]
You create your opportunities…[/QUOTE]
While I agree with this, hard work pays off. There are also plenty of bad people out in the world that use and abuse. I think people should be careful of who they work with.
[QUOTE=doublesstable;7721548]
You create your opportunities…[/QUOTE]
Opportunity does not always show up just because one works harder than anyone else, or is more talented than most… lots of luck and timing is involved. Sometimes people do everything in their power and simply do not luck or timing. I think that we are feeding people falsehoods if we insist that everyone who works hard and is talented and dedicated and persistent will “create” their own opportunity. Watched too many in too many fields to believe it
There is always an element of “luck” or being in the right place at the right time etc. You can enhance it by riding your best every single time because you never know who is watching. A boarder at your home stable might be looking for someone to ride their horse for them and like your style and that could lead to other things. Always take the very best care of any horse you are asked to ride. (I am an OK rider but every horse I ride gets a nice bath, gets handwalked or grazed to cool out and then brushed thoroughly. I always sponge off the horse’s bridle and properly tend to the owner’s tack and equipment. If the horse needs special care like wrapping or such, I learn exactly how the owner wants it done. People see the care I take and offer me rides even when better riders might be available. They like their “baby” to be well tended too.)
I know several trainers who have worked hard to make riding nice horses available to people with limited budgets. A bit of gratefulness and hard work go a long way.
Many barns/trainers are worried that assisting an aspiring young pro will cause the young person to learn their tricks then hang out a shingle and steal their clients. Maybe… but you should have enough confidence in yourself that you can teach young horsemen the ropes.
As far as the “system” I do think that the EQ shouldn’t be considered the sole path to professional careers. I’d love to see grant programs to support trainers who want to take on aspiring pro’s with limited access to good training. My rough proposal would involve an application process by both trainers and students. It would focus not on “BNT’s” but more on “regional BNT’s” or established trainers with successful but just below the elite level programs that might benefit from USHJA support as well. Grant funding could help offset the cost of providing a true horsemanship curriculum to avoid the student becoming an unpaid stall mucker and to compensate the trainer for time and provision of horse(s) for the student to ride/train. It would be a great way for below the radar trainers to get exposure and for students to learn.
If your dream is reasonable, like depending a life in horses? You can get there
But if your dream is elite level success? That’s where you can hit the wall.
How many of you have allowed eager but inexperienced young people go ride your horse to learn to jump bigger where you pay for training ?
I actually have, three times. One went on to become a Pro. One quit the 2 days after school plus every other weekend WS gig because it was " too hard". The other disappeared after promising to back horse and jump once a week when I was unable to ride for 3 months. Horse sat.
My trainer hired just out of college apprentice types for years. Fancy AA barn, great contacts, lots of riding. Most didn’t last. That might not be the WEG or Olyimpics but it’s a solid step if you really have the passion for horses.
[QUOTE=findeight;7725739]
My trainer hired just out of college apprentice types for years. Fancy AA barn, great contacts, lots of riding. Most didn’t last. That might not be the WEG or Olyimpics but it’s a solid step if you really have the passion for horses.[/QUOTE]
It’s funny to me, I’d give my right arm to find a great apprentice/assistant trainer gig with a good contract and lots of riding. Meanwhile I have to work a corporate job that gets increasingly more time consuming and was beating the bushes to find qualified riders that wanted to ride/lesson/show my fancy hunter prospect. Sure, she’s young but I wasn’t asking for money. Could have been a good summer gig for a capable teen or young adult with the skills but a small pocket book. Freer than a free lease! And while green, this horse is quiet doing well on her changes and jumping around 2’6". She doesn’t throw temper tantrums, hacks out alone, and no spook or stop. She’s friendly, not the nightmare greenie everyone avoids.
Funny how I would have given my right arm for a similar situation in my early 20’s, but I guess the opportunity everyone wants is a ready to go 3’6" horse handed to them without the work free of charge. From my experience you take those green/sale horse rides and do a good job, either the owner gives you more opportunity as the horse becomes more show ready or the trainer thinks of you first when the next one comes around. But everyone wants to go in the show ring NOW TODAY with the winning eq horse.
[QUOTE=midstride;7721862]
While I agree with this, hard work pays off. There are also plenty of bad people out in the world that use and abuse. I think people should be careful of who they work with.[/QUOTE]
Yes… a lesson in life - don’t allow yourself to be taken advantage of. However, much of what we do is often taken notice by someone else. 
[QUOTE=justathought;7723203]
Opportunity does not always show up just because one works harder than anyone else, or is more talented than most… lots of luck and timing is involved. Sometimes people do everything in their power and simply do not luck or timing. I think that we are feeding people falsehoods if we insist that everyone who works hard and is talented and dedicated and persistent will “create” their own opportunity. Watched too many in too many fields to believe it[/QUOTE]
I didn’t say there wasn’t luck or timing involved. But the old saying applies to create your opportunity - never give up.
And remember life doesn’t always work out the way you want it but it can work out and make you happy.
[QUOTE=findeight;7725739]
If your dream is reasonable, like depending a life in horses? You can get there
But if your dream is elite level success? That’s where you can hit the wall.
How many of you have allowed eager but inexperienced young people go ride your horse to learn to jump bigger where you pay for training ?
.[/QUOTE]
I have as well. I had a very nice, but very difficult hunter, and over the years, had a couple of kids on him. He taught them that a very nice horse is not necessarily easy, and the ribbons don’t just fall into your lap. He also taught them how to adjust to the horse you are riding, not making them adjust to you.
I’ve never minded giving kids opportunities, because although I started riding when I was 10, didn’t own my first horse until I was in my 20s. I was lucky enough to have great training at great barns, and a lot of opportunities. It was a great way to give back when I owned my own.
As a kid, I wanted to be a trainer, and ride for a living. Realistically? Best thing that happened to me was to go to college and get a job, then ride as an amateur. I was a very good teacher, but I just plain wasn’t talented enough as a rider. Frankly, it’s like breeding a horse, and wanted to leave it a stallion. Only 1% of the top 1% of horses should be stallions. Honestly, same for kids becoming trainers.
Life is about learning your strengths and limitations, and very few people will make it to the elite level. In anything.
Strive for the highest you can get to, but learn to be satisfied with what you have. Loving horses and just being around them is a gift all on it’s own. If it isn’t enough, and fame is what you’re after, then find another sport.
Wow Thoroughbred1201. Your post is very smart. Thanks for sharing it!
[QUOTE=tua37516;7725764 but I guess the opportunity everyone wants is a ready to go 3’6" horse handed to them without the work free of charge. From my experience you take those green/sale horse rides and do a good job, either the owner gives you more opportunity as the horse becomes more show ready or the trainer thinks of you first when the next one comes around. But everyone wants to go in the show ring NOW TODAY with the winning eq horse.[/QUOTE]
This is so true and very sad. I would happily give rides on my made hunter/equitation horse to a competent rider for free if I could find such a rider. No one at my current barn meets that criteria.
So much of this thread is obsessed with showing.
People want someone to noblesse oblige them a trip to indoors on a big money horse. It is so disheartening when this fails to happen.
Whatever will we do.
Not long ago I wrote this post in response to the “opportunity” thread:
There are ways to make opportunities for yourself. While it is not as easy as some make it sound, and while luck certainly plays a role, it is not as impossible as some people are making it sound to learn how to ride on a much smaller budget.
[b]You do not need to compete and win at $1,000 a week horseshows to gain opportunities in this sport.
You do not need to compete and win at $1,000 a week horseshows to become an excellent, professional-caliber rider.
You do not even need to ride full time to become an excellent, professional-caliber rider.[/b]
Will your full color picture be in COTH every time there is a Derby somewhere? No. But you can still become an excellent, professional-caliber rider.
I was very fortunate to have very high caliber training in my junior years, although I never had my own horse and never did anything more than maybe 6 horseshows in the children’s hunters/children’s eq. I didn’t need to go to horseshows to benefit from the lessons at home.
I must admit that a significant portion (half?) of my riding education has been free. At the (crappy) barn that I was at from age 8 to 12, I stayed all day, got charged for one riding lesson, and rode at least 4 a day. There was no quality but there was quantity. At my junior barn, for every horse I took a paid lesson on I hacked one or two more for free. I had a working student gig with an Olympic caliber trainer one high school summer, I paid $0. Before lawschool I showed up every day at one of the premier h/j barns on the east coast, kept a sale horse at cost halvesies with the trainer, helped ride the list. At a high end sale barn where I kept a sale horse during/after law school I got rides on the trainer’s other sale horses, and experience demoing them for customers. Sure I paid board on my horse but the quarter million dollars worth of other people’s horses I sat on on the weekends was free. When I moved to TX (not knowing A SOUL) I found a barn to keep the horses at, worked in exchange for board, and after roughly three weeks the trainer stopped charging me for lessons and has never charged me a penny for a lesson since. On my own horse, on his string of horses, when he comes east for clinics, nada. The list goes on. At this point I have several trainer friends that I can go help ride their list of super nice horses, in either dressage or the hunters.
I have ridden at barns in Westchester, central NY, western NY, Virginia, NJ, FL, TX, at medium level barns and very high level barns, and time and time again it has taken me maybe a lesson or two, or a month or so of boarding, to start getting between 50% - 100% of my riding opportunities for free. Surely a lot of it is luck, but if this is all luck then I have been lucky over and over and over again.
I have seen people walk into programs and known instantly they would get rides, and other people where I knew they were going to be a full-price customer for the rest of their lives, if they managed not to get booted for being a PITA. If you act professional, are studious, are helpful, are likeable, can sniff out opportunities and manage to meet the right people (ideally again and again, wherever you are) and have whatever it is that makes a trainer feel like their day is easier for you being in it, you can get a top level riding education for pennies on the dollar. Some barns don’t have this dynamic at all, so if extra rides/educational opportunities is what you are after you have to move on to another place, make some more phonecalls, ask around, come down a couple more driveways. I found the majority of the places through networking, personal recommendations. Others I cold called, showed up for a lesson, and then “didn’t leave.”
Somehow if you work the right way and act the right way and are nice to people, when you walk into a new program, you will become one of the people who gets rides.
Will you be collecting accolades on the circuit every week at $1,000 a week? No, but you still get to ride at the highest caliber barns on the highest caliber horses and get the highest caliber riding education. For pennies on the dollar. I don’t need to ride something that just ribboned at Devon AT DEVON. I’m more than happy to get to ride it at home.
That is where work plus talent plus money (but a lot less than you would think) creates opportunity.
I’ve competed in maybe 6 rated horses as a junior and less than 10 rated horseshows in my post-junior life. Maybe 25 locals total. My showing resume is brief but highly targeted at increasing value on sale horses, and getting my bronze. Still, even with practically no show record, it is possible to time and time again create opportunities to ride with high caliber trainers on six figure horses. If you can afford A horse, you can afford to train up sale horses and flip your way up the quality ladder. A few years later you too can be owning a six figure horse, just like the rich ladies you envied as a teenager, but unlike them you will also know how to train up the next one and the one after that.
It is not about the showing. It is not about the glitz. I didn’t have to “get seen.” I had to SHOW UP.
If I am honest, at least half -if not three quarters- of my serious riding education was free.
How about that for the costs becoming “almost comically absurd”?
But of course, that is not what people want. They want the fancy shows, the coolers, the big money horses. They don’t want to help make up the horses at home, be part of maintaining a horse’s program at home, teach a revolving door of young horses how to hop around the 2’6’ and learn how to put a confidence building foundation on a youngster.
How many times have we heard people complain, “Well, that trainer made me take my lesson on her green horse. I don’t want to pay money to train someone else’s horse. I really want to focus on me.”
I want to back hand people in the face when they say that. AYFKM???
You know how to teach this young horse the 2’6" like Scott Stewart would do it, I take it? We just need to polish our equitation but the training, that we know how to do already? We are doing this horse a favor and the trainer a favor by paying to ride it. Newsflash people, the trainer is probably going to have to fix (in one try) what you couldn’t get right in seven. You are not paying to train someone else’s horse. You are paying to LEARN HOW to train a horse. Newsflash: I have trained more horses than I can count to jump around, and you know what my rule is? Never jump a greenie unless I have eyes on the ground. Until the horse is clocking around the ruler straight with lead changes, I still get help. My theory is there is no point practicing poorly, EVERY STEP must be of the highest possible quality to waste the least possible time, give the horse the best experience, and spend as little of the horse as possible. And I learn and find stuff to work on every single ride, and very much appreciate knowledgable help to bounce ideas off of, despite the fact that I’ve already done it a thousand times. But people post how they really want a made horse so they can work on them. If they could only have an equitation hooorrrrrrssssee they could live their dreeeeaamm. Of course it is more fun to make the whole lesson all about you. Are we seeing the difference in The Mindset???
The (few) trainer(s who will still bother) is TRYING TO GIVE YOU THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM. If you learn how to build a horse from scratch, fix problems, this adds directly to your tool kit and it IS “working on you.” If you learn how to manage a horse’s program at home, consistently and progressively over a month, six months, a year, three years, that IS “working on you.” But people don’t want those rides. They want to work on themselves. They want to skip straight to coasting around the 3’6 on a loop and if someone could just let them ride a horse that would help them out a great deal they too could have the glory before they turn 18.
They are green with envy at the opportunities the riders showing have, not focusing on envying the HORSE TRAINING SKILLS of the people training the horses at home.
The knowledge to train your a horse up is the only way the great majority of us will ever sit on a six figure horse of our own and have any hope of maintaining it without going broke. Riding that well is also pretty much the only way you get to ride other people’s six figure horses too.
You want people to noblesse obligingly let you sit on fancy horses? LEARN HOW TO RIDE. Not at the shows. AT HOME.
It may take longer for you to achieve this level of skill than your highschool years, but this does not mean the opportunity isn’t there to learn it. It means the opportunity isn’t there in as conveniently short a timeline as people would like. I know, I know, opportunity shows up in overalls and looks like work.
So maybe play the long game (past, you know, your junior years) and learn how you can be VALUABLE TO OTHER PEOPLE, AND THEIR HORSES, WITH YOUR RIDING instead of just valuable to yourself, and maybe then you will get to sit on enough to eventually be able to make up your own nice horse, or someone will invite you to come ride a quarter million dollars worth of horses on the weekends.
Voila, noblesse oblige.
[QUOTE=lauriep;7717772]
I think the skyrocketing costs of showing have drastically limited the ability of trainers to do this as much as they might want to.[/QUOTE]
I’m not part of the Hunter/Jumper world, but do enjoy reading this forum and learning about it. Having read some of the threads about costs in this side of the horse world, even if the trainer has a horse to loan out and barter lessons/working student etc, it would seem that the showing costs likely make things difficult.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;7727163]
I’m not part of the Hunter/Jumper world, but do enjoy reading this forum and learning about it. Having read some of the threads about costs in this side of the horse world, even if the trainer has a horse to loan out and barter lessons/working student etc, it would seem that the showing costs likely make things difficult.[/QUOTE]
At at the top level, nationally ranked level, yeah, they do. But that’s the top few percent of shows and there are many other non nationally rated shows and several other disciplines that a person who really has a passion for horses can enjoy.
Yes, they do cost something. But are more attainable then elite or International level SJ or Big Eq Medals and offer a real shot at saddle time and learning basic horsemanship skills on a budget. Skills that translate to other disciplines.
QHs are huge, Reining and related cow horses, Saddle Seat, you name it. It’s out there if you really want time with horses. Or a trainer who can afford to help one who honestly wants to learn and has clients with something more modest then six figure specialty horses that are billed for every minute they are touched let alone ridden. Might actually get saddle time.
[QUOTE=Marshfield;7727163]
I’m not part of the Hunter/Jumper world, but do enjoy reading this forum and learning about it. Having read some of the threads about costs in this side of the horse world, even if the trainer has a horse to loan out and barter lessons/working student etc, it would seem that the showing costs likely make things difficult.[/QUOTE]
Showing costs make it difficult to horseshow.
They do not make it more difficult to learn how to ride.
Since you don’t need to go to horseshows to learn how to ride.
But people think showing costs make life more difficult since they don’t see any point in learning how to ride unless they can go to the horseshows.
Really, the “noblesse oblige” people are talking about on this thread is the elite horseshowing experience.
The knowledge and skill underlying it -which many trainers are MORE THAN HAPPY to pass on to the next generation- has taken a clear back seat, at least as far as what people are interested in.
Noblesse oblige or Noblesse obliged ??
[QUOTE=MyGiantPony;7717071]
Just opening the concept up for conversation after reading the cost of big eq programs thread.
Do/should BNTs have any obligation to help talented riders who don’t come from mega wealthy families?
If there’s talent, desire and work ethic, should they offer the help?
I know some do so at least to some degree, but do enough?
IMO I have a hard time accepting the fact that there’s lost talent because most families simply can’t afford the literally hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes to do the big eq. The cost has become almost comically absurd.[/QUOTE]
No they are not obliged, regardless, most do.
But frequently it comes down to not only the ability to work hard, but that of talent and attitude.
I don’t know too many trainers who wouldn’t go out of their way to help a dedicated young person learn to be a better horse person. Most people who are looking for help, though, either aren’t dedicated or aren’t really focused on the “horse person” aspect, they actually want free opportunities to show or ride fancy horses.
Also, I completely agree with others who say that there are MANY opportunities out there to become a good horse person. The show world is not some golden road to great horsemanship and great riding. I actually think it’s a tiny bit silly how much weight is put on the equitation divisions–those riders do a lovely job but to be completely honest the division is by and large comprised of a very small subset of young people from very wealthy families. Many potential competitors are excluded based on financial status.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;7727658]
I actually think it’s a tiny bit silly how much weight is put on the equitation divisions–those riders do a lovely job but to be completely honest the division is by and large comprised of a very small subset of young people from very wealthy families. Many potential competitors are excluded based on financial status.[/QUOTE]
If you look at the list of ribbon winners in the last five years or so, there is actually a pretty good mix of kids who come from very wealthy families, kids who are the offspring of trainers, and kids who are not from very wealthy families, but who somehow made it work with a good program. (Obviously, the term “wealthy” is relative. Nobody who gets anywhere near that level in the first place is exactly poor.)
