still worth writing and reading about. In comparison to the large class stallion books of over 100 mares in the current industry his average book was around 28 mares annually. With 169 graded stakes winners in 26 years, one can only wonder what his impact would be if he were still alive.
Interesting comparison made with the industry attraction to American Pharoah.
http://m.niagarathisweek.com/opinion-story/6704111-thomas-northern-dancer-now-there-was-a-real-stud
Thanks, Shammy. What a great article! I have loved Northern Dancer ever since I picked him to win in the third Derby I ever saw. I don’t care that he didn’t win the Belmont that year. He has more descendants out there racing, and getting other racers, than any other horse I’ve ever known, including some that people tout as “great.”
Northern Dancer is my kind of Thoroughbred.
There is a bit of a mythology about ‘nobody wanting’ the yearling colt who would be Northern Dancer.
At the time, IIRC, E.P Taylor offered 50% of his yearlings for sale at a fixed price. So that it didn’t look like he was culling them, they were all for sale. Half would be sold, half he would keep.
$25,000 in those days was a lot of money.An average salary for a working man was around $5,000.
So, while in any kind of dollars he would have been a huge bargain - if we knew then what kind of horse he was going to be, and the incredible impact he would have on international racing and breeding - he wasn’t exactly a reject.
Although not directly related, as Fred points out the era beginning in the 70’s began a dramatic test for the Thoroughbred. Lots of keen information in this slightly dated article. Really gives you an idea of the dominant role of not only Northern Dancer, but Mr Prospector and 8 time leading stallion Bold Ruler. Bold Ruler, also amazing, as he produced during the same era less than a third of the foals sired by ND and Mr P combined.
And let’s not forget the influence of Natalma. Here is an interesting read on her.
http://www.blacktypepedigree.com/articles/natalmas-last-daughter-follows-her-more-famous-sisters
[QUOTE=Shammy Davis;8734578]
still worth writing and reading about. In comparison to the large class stallion books of over 100 mares in the current industry his average book was around 28 mares annually. With 169 graded stakes winners in 26 years, one can only wonder what his impact would be if he were still alive.
Interesting comparison made with the industry attraction to American Pharoah.
This is not entirely accurate. While his “average” foal crop was 27 based on total number of foals sired divided by the number of years he covered mares. His “average” book was much higher than the “around 28”.
Most stud managers then and now know that around 20-30%+ of mare bred will not produce a foal. This “average” is easily found and has pretty much remained a consistent regardless of the size of a stallion’s book.
So taking this into account this would put his “average book” in the mid 30s. Without taking into account the number of shareholders and breeding rights.
He was originally syndicated into 25 shares plus breeding rights if memory serves. He was re-syndicated in the mid to late 70’s, might have been when he was moved to Maryland. The new syndicated was made up of 35-40 shares plus breeding rights. I have a copy of this agreement but can’t put my hands on it without digging around.
If memory serves his “normal book” after becoming well established was around 55+. Which was somewhat less than the “norm” for the era.
The writer of the article took a few “liberties” with historical facts. Bit of a fluff piece but a nice read.
“The sire himself had been passed over at $25,000 (as a yearling) . Soon he was earning $1 million for a one night stand”
“Soon” hardly, he went to stud in 65 he didn’t command the 1 million stud fee until the early 80’s if memory serves. My father bred (for a client) the highest price horse that has been sold to date at Saratoga in 84 who was by Northern Dancer. I believe the fee was $750,000. Would need to dig out that file for a fact check.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RVLfSMIB7K0/SgB-ZDYS6RI/AAAAAAAAUu8/aGF_4-i89dg/s1600-h/Camp.jpg
[QUOTE=Shammy Davis;8734855]
Although not directly related, as Fred points out the era beginning in the 70’s began a dramatic test for the Thoroughbred. Lots of keen information in this slightly dated article. Really gives you an idea of the dominant role of not only Northern Dancer, but Mr Prospector and 8 time leading stallion Bold Ruler. Bold Ruler, also amazing, as he produced during the same era less than a third of the foals sired by ND and Mr P combined.
And let’s not forget the influence of Natalma. Here is an interesting read on her.
Being I assume from Virginia I am surprised you didn’t point out because the author didn’t that Natalma was a Virginia bred. Bred in partnership by Mrs. Augustus who owned Keswick Stud and Danny Van Clief (Nydrie Stud) father of DG. Mrs Augustus’ daughter Peggy picked up where her mother left off breeding top quality horses for many years. The same night the above horse sold she sold the second highest sold to date a colt by Roberto for $4 million. Peggy was and still is a friend. I was quite young at the time but was included in the party of both that night at Serios, A most memorable night.
[QUOTE=Fred;8734769]
There is a bit of a mythology about ‘nobody wanting’ the yearling colt who would be Northern Dancer.
At the time, IIRC, E.P Taylor offered 50% of his yearlings for sale at a fixed price. So that it didn’t look like he was culling them, they were all for sale. Half would be sold, half he would keep.
$25,000 in those days was a lot of money.An average salary for a working man was around $5,000.
So, while in any kind of dollars he would have been a huge bargain - if we knew then what kind of horse he was going to be, and the incredible impact he would have on international racing and breeding - he wasn’t exactly a reject.[/QUOTE]
Exactly around $200,000 in “today’s” dollars. The yearling average in those days would have been around maybe $5,000
It stuck me funny when the author of Sea Biscuit said he was sold as a late 3 year old for the “paltry sum” of $8,000. This was in 1936 with the great depression still had the country in its grip and for a horse that has lost many races in a row at the time and ran for $2,500 claiming. In today’s money that is around $130,000
[QUOTE=gumtree;8735899]
This is not entirely accurate. While his “average” foal crop was 27 based on total number of foals sired divided by the number of years he covered mares. His “average” book was much higher than the “around 28”.
Most stud managers then and now know that around 20-30%+ of mare bred will not produce a foal. This “average” is easily found and has pretty much remained a consistent regardless of the size of a stallion’s book.
So taking this into account this would put his “average book” in the mid 30s. Without taking into account the number of shareholders and breeding rights.
He was originally syndicated into 25 shares plus breeding rights if memory serves. He was re-syndicated in the mid to late 70’s, might have been when he was moved to Maryland. The new syndicated was made up of 35-40 shares plus breeding rights. I have a copy of this agreement but can’t put my hands on it without digging around.
If memory serves his “normal book” after becoming well established was around 55+. Which was somewhat less than the “norm” for the era.
The writer of the article took a few “liberties” with historical facts. Bit of a fluff piece but a nice read.
“The sire himself had been passed over at $25,000 (as a yearling) . Soon he was earning $1 million for a one night stand”
“Soon” hardly, he went to stud in 65 he didn’t command the 1 million stud fee until the early 80’s if memory serves. My father bred (for a client) the highest price horse that has been sold to date at Saratoga in 84 who was by Northern Dancer. I believe the fee was $750,000. Would need to dig out that file for a fact check.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RVLfSMIB7K0/SgB-ZDYS6RI/AAAAAAAAUu8/aGF_4-i89dg/s1600-h/Camp.jpg[/QUOTE]
The largest book he covered was 46 mares. I am pretty sure it was a 32-share syndicate, with 2 breeding rights for Windfields and one for Luro. The largest book any horse ever had at Windfields Maryland was the year Deputy Minister covered 57 mares. Most of them topped out in the low 50s.
Stallion book sizes changed dramatically after El Gran Senor made 120+ covers his first year at stud in 1985 with no ill effects. Until then, it was thought that it would be physically detrimental to a horse to breed that many times in a season.
[QUOTE=Rackonteur;8734609]
Thanks, Shammy. What a great article! I have loved Northern Dancer ever since I picked him to win in the third Derby I ever saw. I don’t care that he didn’t win the Belmont that year. He has more descendants out there racing, and getting other racers, than any other horse I’ve ever known, including some that people tout as “great.”
Northern Dancer is my kind of Thoroughbred.[/QUOTE]
I had a horse with Northern Dancer as a great grandsire - he was such a tryer. What a heart.
I have two friends who have (had) two bay mares who are (were) distant cousins of your guy! 
Let’s not forgot Native Dancer…The first racing TV super star…
[QUOTE=CFFarm;8737941]
Let’s not forgot Native Dancer…The first racing TV super star…[/QUOTE]
Interestingly, back in 2014 when the Gray Ghost was inducted into the MD HOF, NZ reported on it. The sire of Natalma and dame side of the Northern Dancer legacy, the Gray Ghost is often forgotten in the wake of TB history in favor of his son, MR P. I remember that Native Dancer had fragile ankles, and most of his progeny couldn’t escape that unsoundness commentary.
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2014/11/20/native-dancer-honored-maryland/#axzz4BhCe7Dof
[QUOTE=Shammy Davis;8737973]
Interestingly, back in 2014 when the Gray Ghost was inducted into the MD HOF, NZ reported on it. The sire of Natalma and dame side of the Northern Dancer legacy, the Gray Ghost is often forgotten in the wake of TB history in favor of his son, MR P. I remember that Native Dancer had fragile ankles, and most of his progeny couldn’t escape that unsoundness commentary.
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2014/11/20/native-dancer-honored-maryland/#axzz4BhCe7Dof[/QUOTE]
Mr. Prospector was by Native Dancer’s son, Raise a Native.
I too loved Northern Dancer.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;8738059]
Mr. Prospector was by Native Dancer’s son, Raise a Native.[/QUOTE]
That is who SD was referring to. Grey Ghost was Native Dancer’s moniker and what the media and fans called him at the time.
His “legacy” as a stallion is far better known and over shadowed by his son Raise A Native and being the grand sire of Mr. P. For good reason. Both were/are “bred changers”
The Ghost is also the dam sire of Shenanigans the dam of the ill fated Ruffian. And of course Natalma the dam of ND.
He was also the sire of Dancer’s Image who won the Derby but was disqualified for having Butte in his system. A few years later horses were allowed to run with a trace of Butte.
The sire of Kauai King who was also foaled at Sagamore Farm Md. He won the Derby and the Preakness.
Northern Dancer over Mr P mares and or R-A-N was and still is a very popular “nick”. (conversely also) So there are MANY pedigrees of top horses with Native Dancer on the top and bottom.
[QUOTE=ejm;8736080]
The largest book he covered was 46 mares. I am pretty sure it was a 32-share syndicate, with 2 breeding rights for Windfields and one for Luro. The largest book any horse ever had at Windfields Maryland was the year Deputy Minister covered 57 mares. Most of them topped out in the low 50s.
Stallion book sizes changed dramatically after El Gran Senor made 120+ covers his first year at stud in 1985 with no ill effects. Until then, it was thought that it would be physically detrimental to a horse to breed that many times in a season.[/QUOTE]
Good stuff. I’m going to look for the syndicate agreement scan and post for historical interests. It is only a few pages long. Syndicate agreement since that I have worked with are more like 20++.
My father bought and managed a share in The Minstrel who also stood at Winfields Md. A good sire who looked very much like his daddy Northern Dancer IMO but a larger version.
El Gran Senor unfortunately suffered with fertility issues. Nothing to do with his large book. An “issue” that a number of ND line stallion have had.
El Gran Senor ( the nick name for Hiratio Luro trainer of ND) I believe was the largest issuance claim ever paid on a horse around $40,000,000 do to infertility. He was bought from the insurance company Loyd’s of London by Coolmore/Ashford and continued to cover selected mares for brave owners. He did amazingly well with very limited crops.
I have an xAQHA mare that has Northern Dancer on her papers. She is sooo nice. TB looks with QH bone size and brains.
I don’t recall any soundness issues with Northern Dancer or his line. At least, not to the extreme of Hail to Reason or Mr. Prospector. Bold Ruler’s race career had to be managed carefully also though his produce were generally more known for Nasrullah attitude. The great trainers following WWII could keep an unsound horse running because they knew all the tricks of the trade and treated horses as individuals. Luro was a great trainer. Still I just don’t recall the unsoundness conversation with Northern Dancer.
I guess looking back, Northern Dancer could have been mistaken as a QH that was off his feed. Haha.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8738220]
Good stuff. I’m going to look for the syndicate agreement scan and post for historical interests. It is only a few pages long. Syndicate agreement since that I have worked with are more like 20++.
My father bought and managed a share in The Minstrel who also stood at Winfields Md. A good sire who looked very much like his daddy Northern Dancer IMO but a larger version.
El Gran Senor unfortunately suffered with fertility issues. Nothing to do with his large book. An “issue” that a number of ND line stallion have had.
El Gran Senor ( the nick name for Hiratio Luro trainer of ND) I believe was the largest issuance claim ever paid on a horse around $40,000,000 do to infertility. He was bought from the insurance company Loyd’s of London by Coolmore/Ashford and continued to cover selected mares for brave owners. He did amazingly well with very limited crops.[/QUOTE]
EGS was bred and raced by E. P. Taylor and Coolmore. He retired to Windfields and was syndicated for $40 Million total. Coolmore kept a large interest (around a quarter IIRC) and self-insured. The insurers settled with other syndicate members and he was moved to Ashford for the rest of his career in a partnership with Coolmore.
The high number of covers I referred to occurred during his first season when they were trying everything and breeding and collecting constantly trying to figure out what was going on with him before the insurance companies had to pay off. It was a highly unusual and truly shocking number of covers at that time (1985) although many stallions routinely maker 2 to 3 times that many today.
EGS would have been one od truly great sons Northern Dancer if he’d had even moderate fertility.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8738168]
That is who SD was referring to. Grey Ghost was Native Dancer’s moniker and what the media and fans called him at the time[/QUOTE]
I am aware. I am actually old enough to remember the Gray Ghost of Sagamore. I have a wonderful print of a painting of him by Richard Stone Reeves.
I also am aware that a stud has get, and a mare, produce, but that is another thing altogether.
I truly enjoy your tales, Gumtree. They make it all real and alive, once again. It is really fun to remember, and learn a bit more about these amazing horses.
Thanks! :yes:
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