Maybe we could get one and pass it around… I’d be happy to start.
[QUOTE=ideayoda;3182197]
You know I used to watch N.O. train people and work horses, and rode horses which came from him. And although one can draw issue that he was very quiet as a teacher, or smoked through lessons, or alot of other (negative) things, I have to say I know of no horseman that did not respect the his talent and horses (from any school no matter how different from him/his), and who did not enjoy watch him ride as well as riding them. Although he may be as different as the various 4 schools ‘flavors’ were from each other, mutual respect between horsemen was always given.[/QUOTE]
My OH watched him ride a 3yo many many years ago and he went sideways for nearly an hour.
Needless to say, she wasn’t impressed.
My OH watched him ride a 3yo many many years ago and he went sideways for nearly an hour.
Needless to say, she wasn’t impressed.
Have to ask -What’s an O.H.?
Other half?
You know, - I rarely name drop, in fact it’s something I tend to dislike, and I also tend to avoid posting on the dressage queen forum.
However…
I actually was lucky enough way back when I was riding in Belgium to actually take lessons with Nuno before he passed away, and as well from his son Juan after that.
Some may care to go on and on about how awful he was, - frankly, I disagree vehemently.
I never saw his lose his temper (except at riders from time to time) he was always quiet and controlled while on a horse, in my experience, and I spent ALL day at the barn as I worked there as well as rode, and watched him ride all day, not just ‘once’ and then made my judgements.
Excellent horseman, and a very nice person when you weren’t on a horse in fact:) we passed more then a few evenings together in the lounge at the barn after a long day.
To Increase Your Knowledge
[QUOTE=slc2;3181174]
because i don’t care for how mr olivera rode and trained and taught, doesn’t make me vicious or ignorant, i don’t call you vicious and ignorant, i just say i don’t agree. all it means is that i look at it differently than you do. that is not a crime. and i am not alone - not everyone likes every rider, and not everyone gives nuno the same status you do. he is a very popular rider in some circles, and not in others.[/QUOTE]
SLC, I did not call you vicious and ignorant, I said that your comments in regard to Nuno Oliveira on this board were quite vicious as well as ignorant.
Ignorant = lack of knowledge.
You based your comments on only a very few clips and photos, you never actually saw him ride or teach.
I was just offering you the DVD set free of charge so that you could expand your knowledge of the way that Nuno rode and taught.
This DVD is unique in the fact that it is of him riding a stallion (10 year old) over 4 days and runs for 2 hours. It is amazing the difference in the stallion at the end of the 4 days. He also explains to the on lookers what he is doing.
On the 2nd DVD which is of him teaching, you can see obvious imporment in both the riders and their horse. It also runs for 2 hours.
Neither of the DVDs have been edited. When you watch them, it is excatly what the clinic observers saw. Nothing has been cut out.
I realy thought that some one like you would jump at the opportunity to increase your knowledge and if not to change your views on Oliveria’s teaching and riding, but to add to your argument base (which I still do not know).
Anyway the offer still stands, all you have to do is e-mail me at Kyliethomson@westnet.com.au and provide me with you address (which I have promised to keep confidential along with your ID)
Happy learning
Nope, sorry, there is not a whole lot of difference between saying someones remarks are vicious and ignorant and saying THEY are, such comments are guaranteed to cause offense and are intended to cause offense. I’m with ideayoda’s OH, and ideayoda’s OH is not alone, either. I don’t like how Olivera trained - at all. I am not the only one. People either love or hate his method, there seems to be no in between. I find it extreme and ignoring some principles to the detriment of others. Bettina Drummond stated outright trying to sit that way ruined her back, she could not do it. Therefore I feel the position taugt is ALSO extreme and ignores some principles to the detriment of others. It is ok here to say the competition riders all stink, but not to say one dislikes the method of one other non competition trainer. Whack not the shibboleth?
If you have only ever talked to people who agree with you, you might think there is no other opinion out there. There IS. The going sideways on the 3 year old for an hour is what I don’t like but there are other things too.
And no, I don’t agree that it’s fine to piaffe or go sideways on a 3 year old for an hour because it’s a Lusitano or Andalusian or Lipizanner. Even the foremost authority in the world on Baroque breeds, the Spanish Riding School, does not do that. I tend to side with them :). They spend years training their horses before they piaffe.
These Baroque horses aren’t MAGIKAL and do not break basic laws of athletic training, physiology or kinetics, nor are some breeds somehow excluded from the progression of classical training that slowly and correctly develops muscle in the back and hind quarter, this is in big part how i disagree with his method. That’s how I see it. You don’t. Vive la difference. I am allowed to state so here and you are free to disagree, but that does NOT make me ‘ignorant’ because I don’t see it the same way as you.
You are free to like Nuno Olivera’s style - and I am free to NOT like it. Because someone doesn’t like something you like, doesn’t make their comments ‘vicious’ and it most absolutely does NOT make their comments ‘ignorant’. It makes them different from yours - that is all.
SLC,
This has nothing to do with competitive vs non competitive riders. I compete and have competed at Grand Prix level.
you are still basing your argument on here say and hand me down stories.
Honestly I do not care if you agree or disagree but I offer you the chance of seeing for your own self, Nuno training a horse for four days and seeing the end result FOR YOUR OWN SELF. Take a chance, you might just learn somthing:yes: What do you have to lose??
You seem to take peoples words and organise them to suit your own purpose.
Bettina Drummond has a very high regard for Nuno but also has her own demons to deal with in regard to her mother. and she says quite openly that she had a love/hate relationship with Nuno. It was a quite difficult time for her. But please do not twist her words to suit yourself:no:
I REPEAT
I realy thought that some one like you would jump at the opportunity to increase your knowledge and if not to change your views on Oliveria’s teaching and riding, but to add to your argument base (which I still do not know).
Anyway the offer still stands, all you have to do is e-mail me at Kyliethomson@westnet.com.au and provide me with you address (which I have promised to keep confidential along with your ID)
Happy learning
Maybe in your case that’s true, but most people can separate the two to some degree.
That’s where you made your mistake. People like slc2 aren’t interested in learning; they are only interested in spouting off.
slc2, I totally agree with you. and his female follower is crazy and very, very abusive to the horses. I can only hope that Nuno was not since he has been highly regarded!
[QUOTE=Showsheen;3193013]
slc2, I totally agree with you. and his female follower is crazy and very, very abusive to the horses. I can only hope that Nuno was not since he has been highly regarded![/QUOTE]
OMG! I was thinking of the same person and had similar thoughts - though more towards her abuse of riders and lack of teaching skills (some of which neared abuse for the horse).
Edited to add: from what I know he could be pretty abusive to riders who weren’t female and attractive.
slc perhaps you ought to actually read the posts. It was not ideayodas OH at all.
Also you cannot use an example of a Nuno follower who is abusive as any evidence. It is not relevant. It is not a reflection of the man himself. Nuno may have been many things but he was not God. How could any trainer control their followers actions entirely.
I am not sure if I am thinking of the same female follower as others have mentioned because the one I know is not in the USA but if its the same person who claims to be a protege of Nuno but I do know that the one I am thinking of has been totally discredited and it has been proven that she only trained sporadically with him when he was touring internationally. Hardly a Protege!
San Miranda I have looked at some of the You Tube Clips and some of it is fantastic.
Tell me though is the quality better in the real video.?? Its pretty bad on You Tube.
I remember sitting on the wall at Nuno’s talking to him and I asked him
“So and so must be one of your best students, as she has been having lesson for 12 years”
Nuno replied “AH Kailee, you must learn the difference between 12 years of learning and one year repeated 12 times”
In 1988 the day after he died, I was sickend by people jumping on the band wagon advertising themselves as students of Nuno Oliveira. Some who were then charging much more for lessons than Nuno charged!
When ever Nuno came to Western Australia he rode one stallion. In July 1987 he mounted that stallion and was so dishartend by what he felt, that he looked up at the owner and shook his head and they ran out of the arena crying!! That person advertised as a student of Nuno Oliveria and has done more damage to his name than anyone else I know.
There can never be another Nuno Oliveira just like there can never be another Leonardo Da Vinci. This art is a living art and once the master dies…
There can be other artists that follow his methods each taking from what they see and learn from the Master, BUT each developing their OWN STYLE!
It has taken me 20 years to come to terms with people advertising themselves as ‘student of Nuno Oliveira’ but I now accept that yes, they may have had lessons from Nuno Oliveira but did they actualy LEARN anything?
If I see that they work the horse in lightness and without resistance, and the horses back is ‘up’ after that work and the horse is HAPPY and relaxed in his work… well yes, they did actually learn from the Master.
As a Senior High School teacher, I have students who I am proud of and students who I pull my hair out trying to teach.
A student has to be an active learner and not one who changes the subject when they are asked to think for themselves.
Eireamon the clips had to be compressed to be up loaded onto Youtube as I am only on dialup. The DVDs are of much better quality.
Sillyhorse. I guess I should learn - that you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink! AND THAT YOU CAN LEAD A PERSON TO KNOWLEDGE BUT YOU CAN NOT MAKE THEM THINK!
I
[QUOTE=slc2;3192259]
You are free to like Nuno Olivera’s style - and I am free to NOT like it.[/QUOTE]
The DVDs are free, too, slc. Why not take her up on the offer? If nothing else, you could be a lot more specific about what you’re free to NOT like.
Could i have the free dvd’s on the basis that i have ridden with a Spanish School Trainer and currently train with a German ( sadly, no racing around allowed) but absolutely despise Opera and feel that may be the missing key.
It’s worth a try - i despised Indian food till last week.
thanks for the dvd offer, but i’ve seen plenty of nuno olivera riding and teaching and training for a long time. there’s lots and lots of footage around. there’s a ton of it just out on the internet if you just look around.
“female follower is abusive”
jeez. i guess you are referring to bettina drummond? there are a lot of people around who do like her quite well - not that you have to too, but…i suppose there’s a fine line between i-don’t-like-it and abusive, but…really? nothing that i’ve seen would i consider abuse. you mean like losing one’s temper, or what? some people call it abusive if a rider is weak/loose in the seat or hand or doesn’t ride as well as the observer thinks they should…you mean like that?
[QUOTE=slc2;3194663]
thanks for the dvd offer, but i’ve seen plenty of nuno olivera riding and teaching and training for a long time. there’s lots and lots of footage around. there’s a ton of it just out on the internet if you just look around.[/QUOTE]
But this is 2 hours of uncut footage – not at all like seeing clips on the internet. You could view, analyze and critique NO’s techniques, then effectively make your points about why you dislike them.
There are trainers (not dressage) whose work I’ve seen and really don’t like. And if someone offered me this kind of footage on one of them, I’d take them up on it and use the information to support my opinion that the training methods are wrong.
C’mon, slc. Go for it.
i’ve seen quite a bit of uninterrupted footage, actually.
how come the lady who says his female follower is abusive isn’t also vicious and ignorant? haven’t got around to her yet? that’s a lot stiffer than anything i said. i don’t know how she’s defining abuse…i think that’s a little bit strong a word choice…but she’s entitled to her opinion and may want to defend it here…god help her if she does, ROFLMAO!
so, if i have her send me the videos (they’re for free, no cost to me, right?, no 35 dollar charge now?), you’ll all stop picking on me for saying i don’t like how he trains, because let’s be clear, you wouldn’t be picking on my wording or sentence structure or what i said at all, if i agreed that nuno is the god of dressage.
then i’ll be allowed to voice my opinion without being labeled vicious and ignorant, if I watch HER videos rather than other videos? these videos will show nuno olivera in an ENTIRELY NEW way, which i will suddenly like, so i will change my opinion and see the clear light of non-ignorance?
or, after i see these videos, if i don’t now see the light, do i still get attacked and called names? or are we talking about a 1 day moratorium, and then back to business as usual? 
for pity’s sake. if someone offered me a dvd of pat parelli! i would be interested and watch it all the way through. i guess you just can’t help know-nothing know-it-alls.
