Can anyone provide me with info on this subject? Is this real? I cannot seem to find anything on it to read EXCEPT what the rescues put on their pages. I would think this wouldn’t make sense for those amazing breeding farms in Kentucky and everywhere else. Perhaps there are “lower level” breeders or whatever they’re called (meaning the farms not producing winners) that do this? I certainly am not trying to start anything. I’m just trying to get info and maybe some facts on this subject.
Perhaps you are not trying to start anything, but you have picked a rather controversial subject for one of your very first posts.
Try doing a search on this forum, lots of posts & good/factual info can be found here.
The nurse mare argument is completely invalid. A mare is not going to be incredibly fit just after foaling and wouldn’t get sent back out to race. Why someone would believe that is beyond me. It is also rediculous to believe that they have to remove the mare and bring in a substitute so that the mare could be bred. It’s a 10 minute service and the foal could wait in the trailer.
The reason that nurse mares exist is for the rare occasion that a mare dies from pregnancy complications. It’s to save the valuable foal when tragedy strikes. There is no reason to take the nurse mare’s foal away from the nurse mare when she is needed. Most mares are more than capable of of nursing more than one foal, especially when there are now options like milk pellets and powdered milk to supplement the mare’s milk.
The most important part of a nurse mare’s job is to teach a foal the ropes when the foal’s mom has passed. Have you ever handled a bottle-fed vs a nursed foal? The bottle fed babies tend to be a bit more demanding and have a lack of boundaries vs the nursed foal.
I’m not sure where these babies are acquired, but it would be assanine to think they are nurse mare foals. I feel like they are auction foals.
Well that’s your problem for taking it that way. I said in the post I can’t find anything about it online except for what rescues post. of course trying to go the rout of getting Info to better understand would be looked down upon. Lots of people are out there talking about this and if it isn’t true or is rare then I’d like to know. Why is that a problem for you?
[QUOTE=LaurieB;8649505]
Perhaps you are not trying to start anything, but you have picked a rather controversial subject for one of your very first posts.[/QUOTE]
I don’t go on here a lot and I went on specifically for this. Jesus it was a question and since I worded it nicely and said why I was posting it then I didn’t think it was a problem. I don’t know much about the racing industry and if I went off what the rescues have posted and it’s really not true then that’s not fair! Why is this a problem for you? If you don’t have any info to give me then simply don’t comment. Or I could just go off what all the rescues say and also bad mouth the jockey club and racing but oh my god…id like to get more info on this to see if it’s true?! What a terrible thing for me to do on my “one of my first posts” which, who cares if it’s my 999 post or second? Didn’t know that mattered but you being advanced on a forum site and all must give you so much knowledge.
[QUOTE=yourcolorfuladdiction;8649571]
The nurse mare argument is completely invalid. A mare is not going to be incredibly fit just after foaling and wouldn’t get sent back out to race. Why someone would believe that is beyond me. It is also rediculous to believe that they have to remove the mare and bring in a substitute so that the mare could be bred. It’s a 10 minute service and the foal could wait in the trailer.
The reason that nurse mares exist is for the rare occasion that a mare dies from pregnancy complications. It’s to save the valuable foal when tragedy strikes. There is no reason to take the nurse mare’s foal away from the nurse mare when she is needed. Most mares are more than capable of of nursing more than one foal, especially when there are now options like milk pellets and powdered milk to supplement the mare’s milk.
The most important part of a nurse mare’s job is to teach a foal the ropes when the foal’s mom has passed. Have you ever handled a bottle-fed vs a nursed foal? The bottle fed babies tend to be a bit more demanding and have a lack of boundaries vs the nursed foal.
I’m not sure where these babies are acquired, but it would be assanine to think they are nurse mare foals. I feel like they are auction foals.[/QUOT
Wonder why the jockey club wouldn’t be all over stopping these rescues from bashing them. I heard they won’t answer people when they ask where they get the foals from. So to me, that makes it one rescue I wouldn’t support. It isn’t crazy to believe people really think this is a thing. I mean look at all the terrible people things to to animals. It’s a legit question.
The Jockey club has NOTHING to do with farms, nurse mares, etc. They are a registry, period.
Yourcolorful addiction, you are right…they are auction foals and the discarded foals are sent to the auction in groups as a way to discard them. They are also purchased by the rescues directly from the nurse mare owners for 150- 250 dollars and then offered through the rescues. I have never heard of a Thoroughbred farm wanting to keep the nurse mares biological foal with the dam in addition to the abandoned thoroughbred foal.
The foals are excess of the industry no matter how you’d like to look at it.
Basically what happens is there are farms who breed mares every year to provide nurse mares to the thoroughbred (and other breeders too) in the event that a mare dies, becomes very ill, or rejects a foal after birth. Yes there are powdered milk to feed to foals if needed but the foals are reared better by a nurse mare and do a lot better/require less human work with a nurse mare. Personally, I think it boils down to less human work for the thoroughbred farms in the long-run.
Go back a decade or to and the nurse foals were nothing special, the result of any stallion that could get the job done and were often discarded immediately and/or discarded a little later in life. Some nurse mare folks are breeding better type foals with better stallions to make them productive horses for someone else. Some are still discarded in various ways. Some large thoroughbred farms keep their own nurse mares every year. What happens to the foals is any ones guess. Nurse Mares are a easy and cheap way to rear big dollar investments
One nurse mare farm in Kentucky can supply up to 60 or 70 mares for nurse mare obligations. There was an article in the Pullick report regarding one farm in Kentucky who supplies nurse mares. Like any animal industry, there are bad eggs in the bunch but this nurse mare breeder stated the “majority” try and find good homes for the foals.
In addition, Nurse Mares are often bred back to the teaser stallions housed at the thoroughbred farms during their tenure with the foal. The quality of a teaser stallion on a thoroughbred can vary farm to farm.
Although there is still a lot of secrecy behind the industry, what truly happens to the foals as they get older, I personally find it hard to believe that all find homes or don’t end up in bad situations. The ones that are bought immediately by the “rescues” have the better chance or you can go right to the farm and buy one of their foals. If you have an interest in something, I believe they will find a mare that suits your taste within their herd and breed her to a stallion that suits what you want and the resulting foal can be yours for 150 - 250 bucks.
The article is here:
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/nurse-mares-four-legged-mary-poppins-to-the-rescue/
[QUOTE=Rpg7861;8649879]
Wonder why the jockey club wouldn’t be all over stopping these rescues from bashing them. I heard they won’t answer people when they ask where they get the foals from. So to me, that makes it one rescue I wouldn’t support. It isn’t crazy to believe people really think this is a thing. I mean look at all the terrible people things to to animals. It’s a legit question.[/QUOTE]
Because there’s nutters out there who insist that no matter what anyone says contrary to the argument, the rescue is right (and lemme guess exactly which “rescue” it is.) It happens all the time, just go to Zenyatta’s official Facebook or her blog, and you’ll see people posting that her foals go with nurse mares, even when she – the most published and publicly-shared horse at this point in time – has a gazillion pictures of her out in pasture with her babies.
(But then again, don’t get me started on the froot-loop people who are now complaining about Zenyatta being bred again. Some people shouldn’t have the interwebz)
I am no expert, but I have only seen nurse mares enlisted when a foal’s dam dies or violently rejects the foal. I doubt any farms use nurse mares frivolously – it is a lot of work to get them bonded with a new foal, a lot can go wrong.
I should add that one of the best “nurse mares” can actually be a nanny goat. Something more folks should try!
Not just a lot of work, a lot of money! But it is amazing what people will believe. The thing is, if that famous foal rescue really has discovered a nursemare farm that is as callous as they describe, they ought to be outing them and bringing attention to their poor husbandry. If people turned on them the way they turn on the thoroughbred industry, they would go out of business. That’s how to make a change. Instead they enable them. But that’s assuming it really exists. Since the days when that rescue was involved with PMU foals and played fast and loose with the truth back then, I have had my doubts. I swear they have a backwoods farm where they breed foals for the rescue market. I’m only half kidding.
The nursemare foal rescues are awfully strange in general. If you even bring up that you have a wet mare who lost her foal they throw the gates shut and won’t let you buy. They wail about how poorly the foals are treated and how they’re of willy nilly breeding - but sorry, “that” rescue has some incredibly good-looking and respectable babies.
FYI, “that” rescue apparently gets most of their babies from Roseberry (who is interviewed in the above PR article). Sure doesn’t seem like a monster to me.
They are also odd in that they require you to adopt two foals together. Undoubtedly the foals would be happy to have a buddy, but is that in the best interest of the foal’s future? I can see requiring horse experience, and references, and maybe even requiring that another horse be on the property for companionship and socialization. But requiring someone to get two foals who will be double the work and double the expense and be able to tagteam in outwitting a newbie… Just doesn’t seem like good horsemanship is at the heart of that requirement. Sounds like BOGO economics is at the heart of it!
Here’s a thread about what nurse mares are used for, how the process goes, etc…
I find it very interesting that this thread has appeared on the racing forum. It is no secret that I think horse racing leadership, starting with the JC, is worthless, but on this subject I don’t make the connection. If the OP is so interested in the subject, Google can make enough links that the OP will chance timing out all his or her brain waves. JMHO, but if there is any true interest by the OP, then horse care or the “catch all” forum is where this thread should be.
This the biggest weekend of the horse racing calendar and someone posts to the racing forum about nurse mares? Pass me the muck fork. This thread maybe worth composting, but I am skeptical whether that includes our attention.
[QUOTE=Shammy Davis;8651309]
I find it very interesting that this thread has appeared on the racing forum. It is no secret that I think horse racing leadership, starting with the JC, is worthless, but on this subject I don’t make the connection. If the OP is so interested in the subject, Google can make enough links that the OP will chance timing out all his or her brain waves. JMHO, but if there is any true interest by the OP, then horse care or the “catch all” forum is where this thread should be.
This the biggest weekend of the horse racing calendar and someone posts to the racing forum about nurse mares? Pass me the muck fork. This maybe worth composting, not our attention.[/QUOTE]
Probably because the OP found out about Last Chance Corral which talks mainly about the racing industry and their horrible breeding practices as they put it. You know an organization like that is going to use this big weekend for publicity and use what ever tactics to drum up donations for their cause.
I assume they posted here since the rescue they are talking about claims that their nurse mare foals are created so their dams can raise TB racebred foals who are taken away from their dams so their dams can be rebred. They claim that foals are not allowed to accompany their dams to the breeding farm at some times and claim that a mare will not cycle with a foal by her side at other times. We all know that isn’t true but LCC swears it is so someone who isn’t familiar with the racing industry or horse reproduction in general might be unsure. Whether he/she is trolling or just curious remains to be seen but this would be a logical place to ask if it is the latter.
Ah! So it is LLC agenda. The OP wants to wake up the derby crowd with a “dead horse like” conversation. In that case, along with the muck fork, pass me the largest muck sack. Time to strip the stall for new bedding and make it quick so we racing people can focus on the weekend festivities.
Oh, where do we normally pile this stuff?
