Wow! Wanna make money–work for PETA!
I came across this–nice to know where your donation go!!
Not my donations. I wouldn’t spit on them if they were on fire.
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7503348]
And she has jumped on quite a few people and tried to crucify them on FB lately for running horses over the age of 8. She used names and locations and encouraged people to call the Stewards.
However, I do appreciate what she does, and is good for the sport. But god forbid you are running an older horse that she feels should be retired, she has zero qualms about outing you on FB. (I have two very nice sound horses at my farm, one that retired at 11, and another at 12. Between the two they earned 1.2 million).
My point is that these horses were very well looked after during their careers. Just because they are older and were no longer stake horses doesn’t mean they should have been retired. As long as they are happy doing their job social media shouldn’t force a trainer to sell/retire them.[/QUOTE]
I’d rather run and older sound , battle tested horse then some young thing with 2 starts in its pocket and already getting “therapies” to get to the next.
[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7504112]
I’d rather run and older sound , battle tested horse then some young thing with 2 starts in its pocket and already getting “therapies” to get to the next.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing, Lynnwood. I’ve met a few of those racing older horses and the ones I met were grounded, amazing athletes.
Haven’t seen that Maggi Moss dumps on owners of horses only because they’re older. But if they’re older, with results consistently bringing up the rear, and/or in obvious distress.
[QUOTE=CVPeg;7504602]
Haven’t seen that Maggi Moss dumps on owners of horses only because they’re older. But if they’re older, with results consistently bringing up the rear, and/or in obvious distress.[/QUOTE]
Well the group she aligns herself with does. They also made a huge deal about a horse that ran well (won but not much talent for the future) at a good track and got claimed. The horse ended up at a cheaper track and everyone was freaking the f out. I guess the horse was claimed from the owners of zenyatta and they public ally shamed them for not saving the horse. The assumption that the horse needed to be saved was terrible. There are good caretakers at cheaper tracks and sometimes lower competition is the right thing to do for the horse so he has a chance to win instead of getting dirt kicked in his face at Santa Anita. Then they try to shame the trainers/owners of horses they think should be retired because they are not willing to give the horse away for free even though they just bought the horse for 5-10k and they are sound.
[QUOTE=CVPeg;7504602]
Haven’t seen that Maggi Moss dumps on owners of horses only because they’re older. But if they’re older, with results consistently bringing up the rear, and/or in obvious distress.[/QUOTE]
You should pay more attention, there are some posts on FB still around, but she has deleted most of it. Not every horse will run good every time, and when they are older and don’t she attacks.
I have been paying attention to most of the postings. Agree there are a few who really blow it up - the same kind that will ding racing altogether. And definitely some whose mantra is to be the next savior of horseracing. LOL
Of course had seen those against a certain trainer - let’s just say one acting more in his owner capacity, but considering the knowledge around that his horses had disappeared in the past, or come out worse for wear - a stakes winner owned by friends an example - I won’t disagree there.
But most I had checked out had had miserable form. Agree that doesn’t mean everything is wrong always. But she must follow so many to begin with, I’d guess she worries as she sees them fail.
And don’t disagree that a horse may do well on a lesser track, if the horse is healthy/sound, just slower. But when shipped lower, when the horse is known to be a problem. That’s where disaster happens. Also first hand experience with an idiot syndicate managing partner who moved his horse against the trainer’s - a top-notch horseman - wishes.
Really? The owners are the best educated? I’m not an active racehorse owner but while boarding my at the time just OTTB at the farm of a TB race trainer (in the biz for more than 50 years) I met quite a few racehorse “owners”.
Not a one would be able to tell a whither from a frog if their lives depended upon it. These people wouldn’t even dream of taking their horse out of its stall to groom or go for a walk. The only thing they seemed interested in was posing for win photos and/or telling their friends they own a “race horse”. Perhaps your observations and experiences are different.
Unfortunately, that job is going to be given to the legislatures and racing commissioners because no one wants to own it.
Because people who should be blowing the whistle have stood by and done nothing. Organizations rarely police themselves. They circle the wagons, human nature being what it is.
[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7504761]
Not a one would be able to tell a whither from a frog if their lives depended upon it. [/QUOTE]
My “go to” phrase is not knowing a fetlock from a forelock. 
What’s also amazing to me, is how so many of these kind of owners - raise each other up on the knowledge scale - with their sheets in hand on their clipboard, but not a clue what a hoof pick is.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7503749]
A pic of Big Brown’s foot taken by a real photographer ie. not me.[/QUOTE]
The farrier did a very nice job. His hoof actually looks pretty good. No long toe, crushed heel, good base of support. The crack was presumably sewed and then covered with a filler (acrylic or other polymer) which is usually stronger than the natural hoof. Of course, the crack was most likely originally caused by a hoof imbalance that his farriers failed to notice or address until - oops!
Sure it’s a weakness but Big Brown was probably better off running on that than many I see running a “flat tires”. But I digress…
I consider myself a pretty knowledgable owner but I definitely don’t and don’t want to make the Day to day veterinary and care decisions regarding my horses in training. I pay a trainer that I trust to do what is in the best interest in the horse and leave the decisions up to them. I don’t see the horses every day and watch them go so I have no interest In meddling.
Now if I go watch one train and I don’t like the way they’re going I will for sure discuss it with the trainer, but the vet, not so much.
If I can’t trust the trainer to make the right call then I need to find a new one. Been there done that.
[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7504778]
The farrier did a very nice job. His hoof actually looks pretty good. No long toe, crushed heel, good base of support. The crack was presumably sewed and then covered with a filler (acrylic or other polymer) which is usually stronger than the natural hoof. Of course, the crack was most likely originally caused by a hoof imbalance that his farriers failed to notice or address until - oops!
Sure it’s a weakness but Big Brown was probably better off running on that than many I see running a “flat tires”. But I digress…[/QUOTE]
“His hoof actually looks pretty good”? Well, yes I suppose it does considering the disaster it must have been to require that much “filler”.
Should a horse with a hoof that requires such extensive patching be raced? I think not. That must have been one hell of a quarter crack.
I don’t believe that an unsound horse should be raced. I realize that horses are (and will continue to be) raced by SOME people for financial gain and/or glory , however not all owners and trainers will run their horses in such poor shape .
rcloisonne, I’m really amazed at your snarkiness. If you put the education level of the owners and vets up against the education level of the trainers, assistants, foremen, exercise riders, grooms, and hotwalkers, I’ll bet any amount of money that the owners and vets are the best educated.
Whether or not the owners CHOOSE to get involved is a different matter, and I am calling on them to step up to the plate and take responsibility for what is going on. Hiring a manager to take care of the racing business is NOT an excuse for the possible mistreatment of a horse that is owned by a person who is “too busy” to get involved. IMHO, we need our own Sarbanes-Oxley Act to make the people at the top responsible for what is going on.
The vets ultimately make the decision as to whether or not to treat the horse, and the owners are paying the bills. That is where the buck stops, and that is who needs to take responsibility.
Lynwood, great comments. When I see a lightly raced three or four year old, the first thing I think is “not sound.” When I see an older horse who raced and hit the board consistently for several years, I think that the horse appears to be pretty sound. I recently retired an older class horse that probably had a few more races in him, but I’d rather retire him sound enough for a second career than try to squeeze a few more wins out of him.
Flash, book smart and degrees don’t mean squat when it comes to horsemanship (mostly excluding vets but not all).
Years of experience working with race horses counts for quite a bit believe it or not. Having owners involved in all aspects of their horses care is unrealistic. They might as well become trainers if that’s what’s expected.
Most owners have jobs outside of the racing industry, many have their horses out of state, some out of the country. Just not feasible.
[QUOTE=Flash44;7506647]
rcloisonne, I’m really amazed at your snarkiness. If you put the education level of the owners and vets up against the education level of the trainers, assistants, foremen, exercise riders, grooms, and hotwalkers, I’ll bet any amount of money that the owners and vets are the best educated.
Whether or not the owners CHOOSE to get involved is a different matter, and I am calling on them to step up to the plate and take responsibility for what is going on. Hiring a manager to take care of the racing business is NOT an excuse for the possible mistreatment of a horse that is owned by a person who is “too busy” to get involved. IMHO, we need our own Sarbanes-Oxley Act to make the people at the top responsible for what is going on.
The vets ultimately make the decision as to whether or not to treat the horse, and the owners are paying the bills. That is where the buck stops, and that is who needs to take responsibility.[/QUOTE]
The owners and vets are not the best educated to train racehorses. There is a saying, “don’t let the vet train your horse”. Vets are great, but they don’t know everything, many of them have never even ridden a racehorse. The horse IS the trainer’s responsibility when it is in the trainer’s care. The owner pays us to take care of it. That is our job. Most of us know the ins and outs of the game a lot better than the owners. We see hundreds of horses go by every day. We have connections from being there every day, for years, that most owners don’t have.
A good owner knows his trainer. If Zayat really cared about his horses, he’d have them with a trainer who he would stand by. This is the issue.
Sorry Flash but I agree that your argument is silly. If an owner is a lawyer or a CPA etc. that prepares him to know how to care and train for a race horse? I don’t think so. The whole reason to hire a trainer is for their expertise that you do not have. I trained race horses for over 20 years. My filly is starting day 60 of professional training to be an event horse. I know my limitations, I am not an event horse trainer so she is being trained by someone with more expertise than I possess at that discipline. Hopefully by the time I am able to ride again following my hip surgery she will be far enough along in her training that I can take over.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7506755]
Sorry Flash but I agree that your argument is silly. If an owner is a lawyer or a CPA etc. that prepares him to know how to care and train for a race horse? I don’t think so. The whole reason to hire a trainer is for their expertise that you do not have. I trained race horses for over 20 years. My filly is starting day 60 of professional training to be an event horse. I know my limitations, I am not an event horse trainer so she is being trained by someone with more expertise than I possess at that discipline. Hopefully by the time I am able to ride again following my hip surgery she will be far enough along in her training that I can take over.[/QUOTE]
Yes, sometimes the business success an education actually work against them when it comes to the horses. In business they may be able to control things and get things done quickly which may work against them with a horse. It may be frustrating to them to not pick up so much knowledge right away. For example, their horse is speeding and fading they may ask for an equipment change, like a stronger bit when really the answer is a better rider with good hands or to scope the horse. However, I feel the best managers/businessmen/women know how to listen and work as a team. So, it really depends on the person.
I think the owner should trust the trainer to an extent but be smart enough to question why their sound young horse has vet bills in the hundreds of dollars every month and be able to question why it needs so many different pharmaceuticals. Generally speaking, wealthy people don’t get wealthy or stay wealthy by letting themselves be ripped off or fooled.
On another note, for the person who brought up drugs etc. In endurance riding, there is an article in the COTH magazine (I don’t subscribe but it was posted on an endurance site) that tells about what AERC is doing to bring the issue of drugs and breakdowns in International endurance to light. Its very interesting and I wish there were more people in tb. Racing that would take a stand. But a big difference is that the culture of drugs and cheating is firmly entenched in racing and just getting started in endurance.
