My point was Flash, since you obviously missed it, was the majority of owners are not knowledgeable about horses, racehorses or otherwise. Doesn’t matter if they possess multiple advanced degrees in astrophysics or nuclear fusion. In most cases, they should not be calling the shots regarding their horses training or health care.
On the other hand, I don’t believe for one minute Zayat didn’t know there was a problem with his horse. Just don’t believe he’s that naive - at all.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7503825]
Now you know why Kent wet his pants during the Belmont. He was afraid that thing had blown.[/QUOTE]
Yes, his reaction does make more sense when you see what the hoof looked like.
What is the hook-shaped thing? Is it a piece of hardware that is supposed to help hold it all together?
Have you ever had to use “filler” to repair a hoof? Sounds like “no”. The amount used is always winds up lot wider than the actual deficit. A small amount is place on the area to be covered and then spread thin, like butter. From what I’ve read BB had a typical quarter crack from ground to coronet, probably 1/8" - 1/4" wide.
See below for more info and pics (not of BB) of a typical quarter crack repair.
http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/05/big-brown-may-have-quarter-crack.html
Should a horse with a hoof that requires such extensive patching be raced? I think not. That must have been one hell of a quarter crack.
I believe it was a “typical” or average quarter crack. The patching is not that extensive, IMO. Keep in mind, it held together through all of this.
I don’t believe that an unsound horse should be raced. I realize that horses are (and will continue to be) raced by SOME people for financial gain and/or glory , however not all owners and trainers will run their horses in such poor shape .
I don’t think an unsound horse should be raced either but was BB unsound? Not according to the track vets. Plus, it would be a rare owner and trainer who would throw away a one in a million chance at winning the Triple Crown. BB had a very, very good chance of doing that.
Apologies if this has been noted, but that last shot of Big Brown’s hoof was not the quarter crack in question. That was when he grabbed a quarter in his final workout. He never raced on that. In Barbara Livingston’s own words:
“Random flashback to a tough morning in 2008…. BIG BROWN’s hoof, just after his last workout. (EDITED, for those who don’t know when his last workout was: THIS WAS NOT AT BELMONT TIME. It was in October, before the BC. His retirement was announced this same morning)”
THIS was the quarter crack:
http://www.phelpssports.com/content/photos/22869.jpg
http://www.phelpssports.com/content/photos/23225.jpg
Thanks for the correction. I have seen dozens of grabbed quarters in my life but nothing even remotely close to that. Not sure how you could grab a quarter all the way on the side of the hoof like that. That looks more like something another horse would have to do to him.
I’m not familiar with all the stuff certain farriers do to horses’ hooves. So pardon my ignorance. Is the white stuff filler? Seems like a lot if it is.
[QUOTE=harvestmoon;7507445]
Apologies if this has been noted, but that last shot of Big Brown’s hoof was not the quarter crack in question. That was when he grabbed a quarter in his final workout. He never raced on that. In Barbara Livingston’s own words:
“Random flashback to a tough morning in 2008…. BIG BROWN’s hoof, just after his last workout. (EDITED, for those who don’t know when his last workout was: THIS WAS NOT AT BELMONT TIME. It was in October, before the BC. His retirement was announced this same morning)”
THIS was the quarter crack:
http://www.phelpssports.com/content/photos/22869.jpg
http://www.phelpssports.com/content/photos/23225.jpg[/QUOTE]
Big Brown wore glue on shoes.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7507459]
Thanks for the correction. I have seen dozens of grabbed quarters in my life but nothing even remotely close to that. Not sure how you could grab a quarter all the way on the side of the hoof like that. That looks more like something another horse would have to do to him.[/QUOTE]
It certainly was nasty looking. Poor guy!
[QUOTE=SportArab;7507462]
I’m not familiar with all the stuff certain farriers do to horses’ hooves. So pardon my ignorance. Is the white stuff filler? Seems like a lot if it is.[/QUOTE]
Big Brown had glue on shoes, so that’s what most of the white stuff is.
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/21125/big-browns-feet-not-so-bad-farriers-say
http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/04/big-brown-most-famous-feet-in-derby.html
[QUOTE=harvestmoon;7507472]
Big Brown had glue on shoes, so that’s what most of the white stuff is.
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/21125/big-browns-feet-not-so-bad-farriers-say
http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/04/big-brown-most-famous-feet-in-derby.html[/QUOTE]
I was wondering about that…they looked like glue on shoes to me. But even for glue ons…as I have some horses in them…he has addtional eppoxy on his quarter cracks. Basically…he has cruddy feet but not the most cruddy that I’ve ever seen in a performance horse.
Many of you missed my point. I never said that the owners and vets are best suited to train a race horse, they are simply the best educated and the pathetic excuses that I hear do not excuse them of the responsibility to the horse. If you own a horse, you OWN it, and it is your responsibility. In business, the CEO and the CFO of a corporation have to sign off on the financial statements even though someone else actually prepares the statements. They are held responsible for the conduct of the people who work under them and are criminally liable for any false accounting. Owners who do not practice due diligence and blindly pay the bills really are not doing the sport any good. Step up to the plate and let your trainers know that you will not tolerate any mistreatment of the horse or overtreatment in the attempt to mask unsoundness. In my business, we have big clients who go over our bills with a fine toothed comb and will not hesitate to dispute a $10 charge in a monthly bill that is $17,000.
The owners and vets can take responsibility and get the situation under control, or the state legislatures will do so.
[QUOTE=Flash44;7507903]
Many of you missed my point. I never said that the owners and vets are best suited to train a race horse, they are simply the best educated and the pathetic excuses that I hear do not excuse them of the responsibility to the horse. If you own a horse, you OWN it, and it is your responsibility. In business, the CEO and the CFO of a corporation have to sign off on the financial statements even though someone else actually prepares the statements. They are held responsible for the conduct of the people who work under them and are criminally liable for any false accounting. Owners who do not practice due diligence and blindly pay the bills really are not doing the sport any good. Step up to the plate and let your trainers know that you will not tolerate any mistreatment of the horse or overtreatment in the attempt to mask unsoundness. In my business, we have big clients who go over our bills with a fine toothed comb and will not hesitate to dispute a $10 charge in a monthly bill that is $17,000.
The owners and vets can take responsibility and get the situation under control, or the state legislatures will do so.[/QUOTE]
That sounds mighty nice, but the truth is, very few owners DO pay bills blindly. You are preaching like every one of them is blind, negligent and careless. They aren’t. Even the ones I don’t see often wouldn’t hesitate to ask about an injection, a funny step in a race, etc. I wouldn’t have the vet look at the horse without consulting the owner first, let alone treat it. Nor would any of my fellow trainers (except in the case of a colic or similar life and death instance). While what you are saying is all good, it’s also pretty much how it goes already. The problem is, owners play ignorant when the trainer gets a bad test, or whatever, because they can simply move on. Start penalizing owners. I’ve seen dozens of instances where the OWNER has snuck in the barn before a race and given a horse a substance, totally unbeknownst to the scapegoat, aka the trainer.
[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7507145]
Have you ever had to use “filler” to repair a hoof? Sounds like “no”. The amount used is always winds up lot wider than the actual deficit. A small amount is place on the area to be covered and then spread thin, like butter. From what I’ve read BB had a typical quarter crack from ground to coronet, probably 1/8" - 1/4" wide.
See below for more info and pics (not of BB) of a typical quarter crack repair.
http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/05/big-brown-may-have-quarter-crack.html
I believe it was a “typical” or average quarter crack. The patching is not that extensive, IMO. Keep in mind, it held together through all of this.
I don’t think an unsound horse should be raced either but was BB unsound? Not according to the track vets. Plus, it would be a rare owner and trainer who would throw away a one in a million chance at winning the Triple Crown. BB had a very, very good chance of doing that.[/QUOTE]
As I thought ; “that must have been one hell of a quarter crack” (I have seen many quarter cracks I’m not quite as ignorant as you assume…) and it turns out that it was NOT a photo of the QC repair but of a “grab”. The whole hoof looks lousy to me.
Did anyone see the latest buzz going around FB about Cooper River at Laurel? That’s certaintanly not going to help with all the PETA stuff going on.
[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;7508464]
Did anyone see the latest buzz going around FB about Cooper River at Laurel? That’s certaintanly not going to help with all the PETA stuff going on.[/QUOTE]
:eek: HORRIFYING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUIui05wlKs
Start watching at the 2:00 mark.
:no: These horses have so much heart - and get used and abused by so many A’holes it makes me SICK.
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;7487636]
Reaction from the industry after receiving the tapes and documents:
thx for posting this.
[QUOTE=Appsolute;7509001]
:eek: HORRIFYING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUIui05wlKs
Start watching at the 2:00 mark.
:no: These horses have so much heart - and get used and abused by so many A’holes it makes me SICK.[/QUOTE]
The horse broke it’s pelvis coming out of the gate. Obviously should have been pulled up but I don’t know about being used and abused.
Not pulling that horse up immediately is not abuse?
I think it would qualify you as an abuser in most horse sports. If you try to keep riding an injured horse in eventing, you get stopped on the course, and at the very least yellow carded.
Does a jockey receive any sort of official sanctions for racing a very very obviously injured horse?
I can’t imagine the level of pain that poor horse endured.
[QUOTE=Appsolute;7509064]
Not pulling that horse up immediately is not abuse?
I think it would qualify you as an abuser in most horse sports. If you try to keep riding an injured horse in eventing, you get stopped on the course, and at the very least yellow carded.
Does a jockey receive any sort of official sanctions for racing a very very obviously injured horse?
I can’t imagine the level of pain that poor horse endured.[/QUOTE]
Yes a jockey can, fines, days, weeks even, for continuing to ride an injured or off horse. I wouldn’t be surprised if this kid is ruled off. That would be a hard call to make though. The jockey probably thought at the time the horse was just trying to bolt and go through the rail.
I would call it stupidity before I called it abuse. He should absolutely get days however.
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