vali,
Is it possible to share a pubmed article or 2 that you found?
Anyone can search on pubmed, just canāt download the entire article if you donāt have access to full articles. Most have abstracts
[QUOTE=La Chasse;6664312]
Anyone can search on pubmed, just canāt download the entire article if you donāt have access to full articles. Most have abstracts
Pubmed.com[/QUOTE]
Yes I know. And as I do not have access to those articles I was wondering ig there was a way for Vali to share. I can only get the abstracts.
This is not scientific and for all I know whomever wrote this a total whack job, but I came across this when reading about Pentosan for my horse.
[QUOTE=flyracing;6658871]
Iām sure Iāll get some angry PMs over this, but Iāve taken Pentosan at 2mg/kg subQ 1x/week as Iāve read in studies for knee OA. Iāll admit the results were pretty amazing![/QUOTE]
Iām happy to hear people are having success with Pentosanā¦it is sad it takes forever for things to get approved through the FDA. I have really bad OA in knees and hands and am tempted to try itā¦
Flyracer, is there a reason you inject subQ versus IM?
[QUOTE=Watermark Farm;6666124]
This is not scientific and for all I know whomever wrote this a total whack job, but I came across this when reading about Pentosan for my horse.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Watermarkfarm!
This is a free download. It is a commentary but does provide references.
I have read the 1st 4-5 pages already and trying to keep an unbiased opinion while doing so. However some of the same frustrates this author seems to be expressing I do know 1st hand. Cuz I went thru the same hassels with my vet (who lost my biz over this) for ignoring my requests about pentosan for my old horse.
The vet I replaced him with had never ever heard of this BUT was at least willing to work with me and get it in stock.
Nuthin like knocking 2 decades off a horse! Old Chippers is a total hotty againā¦back to being a jerk sometimes too. Since this is his real personality I am thrilled. And the dogs get their 4th dose today of the 1st months loading dose. One showed improvement fairly fast (by the 2nd dose). One about the same and the last slightly improved.
Pentosan gets a huge thumbs up from me!
So when you are giving it to the dogs, are you injecting them with the Pentosan? I have pills for my old pooch as well as injectable for my horses. Just wondering if the injectable would work and how much you are giving your dogs.
Also, I am wondering how the humans on this board have taken it? Again by pill or injectable?
[QUOTE=lucky dog farm;6668192]
So when you are giving it to the dogs, are you injecting them with the Pentosan? I have pills for my old pooch as well as injectable for my horses. Just wondering if the injectable would work and how much you are giving your dogs.
Also, I am wondering how the humans on this board have taken it? Again by pill or injectable?[/QUOTE]
I am using the injectable for my dogs at 3mg/kg. It is the same Pentosan my horse receives, however, I have ~100lb dogs. Using a 1cc syringe makes dosing accurately possible. Dosing this concentration on small dogs would be problematic. So I can see why some folks are using the pills. No idea if they make a more dilute injectable concentration for dogs as I never looked. Pills would be problematic for my dogs also and they do not mind the injections nor do I.
On a side note - Interesting someone has given me a couple of thumbs down on this topic. Funnyā¦apparently my vets and I am frowned at for working together on finding safe, effective treatments for my old animals OA.
But mostly I see folks have given thumbs up. Thx for that and I am glad some people find open discussion healthy.
So if you have bad experiences/no benefit with Pentosan as a human that used it or in one of animals then speak up. That is what this discussion is for. But if you have decided for all of us that we are not allowed use new and innotative treatments such as Pentosan for the benefit of our animals /our ourselves then you have a serious control problem.
Here is an article describing one study of Pentosan in humans with knee OA. It suggests significant improvement was observed.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6904/10/7
I have been following this subject for a while because I have significant OA in both knees which no longer responds to other therapies. I have no concerns about its safety profile, as the drug (marked as Elmiron for human use, for a different indication) has been FDA approved for more than a decade.
Thx for the link!
[QUOTE=D Taylor;6676112]
Thx for the link![/QUOTE]
Youāre very welcome! Iād love to hear an update if you decide to use it. I am seriously considering it, but after almost a year of chemo (sigh) I am now very needle-averseā¦
[QUOTE=Lucassb;6676778]
Youāre very welcome! Iād love to hear an update if you decide to use it. I am seriously considering it, but after almost a year of chemo (sigh) I am now very needle-averseā¦[/QUOTE]
So sorry to hear about the chemo. Got to be getting old. Hope it went well!
Seems Europe and some other countries are way ahead of us on using Pentosan for OA. The hubby is going to be in Italy next week and per the commentary Watermark Farm provided Fibrase (aka-pentosan) is OC in Italy. That is a big hhhhuuuummmm?!?!?!
Now I have been to the pharmacy in Italy when I had an upper resp infection that wanted to become more. They took care of me. Have to wonder is medicine really that much more progressive there and in other places. Are we behind the times and caught up in redtape here in the USA and to the point extreme profit taking is the only goal in medicine anymore (like the commentary suggests).
Is my doctor uninformed as to the possibly of benefit the pentosan could offer meā¦simply cuz there is not saleman/drug company pushing it? Cuz there is a low profit margin?
Have to say my vet(s) were! And I am very happy I did not stop researching and asking questions. What a failure that would have been for my horse.
Anyhow the hubby is going to be doing a bit of fact finding for me while in Italy.
[QUOTE=D Taylor;6677887]
So sorry to hear about the chemo. Got to be getting old. Hope it went well!
Seems Europe and some other countries are way ahead of us on using Pentosan for OA. The hubby is going to be in Italy next week and per the commentary Watermark Farm provided Fibrase (aka-pentosan) is OC in Italy. That is a big hhhhuuuummmm?!?!?!
Now I have been to the pharmacy in Italy when I had an upper resp infection that wanted to become more. They took care of me. Have to wonder is medicine really that much more progressive there and in other places. Are we behind the times and caught up in redtape here in the USA and to the point extreme profit taking is the only goal in medicine anymore (like the commentary suggests).
Is my doctor uninformed as to the possibly of benefit the pentosan could offer meā¦simply cuz there is not saleman/drug company pushing it? Cuz there is a low profit margin?
Have to say my vet(s) were! And I am very happy I did not stop researching and asking questions. What a failure that would have been for my horse.
Anyhow the hubby is going to be doing a bit of fact finding for me while in Italy.[/QUOTE]
Ah, thanksā¦ I am fine now! But being a pin cushion for that long did get old, and my veins are shot. I am now what they call a āhard stick,ā so ā¦ letās just say that I donāt look for opportunities to get injected, LOL. That said, my knees are in terrible shape and a subQ stick might be worth it if it really made a big difference in comfort/mobility.
The European healthcare environment is very different from ours, obviously. I wouldnāt disagree that in many ways they do seem more progressive. I donāt think itās entirely about profit taking here, though. Their mostly-single-payer systems are more efficient and allow them to keep a single health record on their population, and focus more effectively on wellness and preventative measures, which certainly makes a difference. But there are also significant differences in the medical malpractice environments between the US and Europe, where they have āless defensiveā medicine as a result. That has all sorts of manifestations in practice behavior, including the use of off label applications for meds, etc. Itās a complex issue, for sure.
Meanwhile, I hope your DH gets some good info in Italy, and will be interested to learn what he finds out!
Per the hubby it is in deed OC in Italy. For those of you that have never been to Italy OC is a tad different there than the US. You go to the Farmacia for even an aspirin or advil. You do not find that sort of thing on the shelf at just any store and a pharmacist there has the discretion of offering more drugs (but not all) without an Rx than here in the US.
Just for example I was getting just over a bad sinus infection when I was there that had left my upper airway irritated. I had my Rx inhaler along ā¦just in case tho it had no more refills. Caught a nasty cold there with a cough and it wanted to become more. So went into the Farmacia and they gave me some things. So when I showed them my inhaler to be sure there was no drug interactions with what I was given they offered to refill it without an Rx from a doctor. Did not even need to contact my US doctor.
However, Fibrase is not a popular item there and not in stock so it has to be ordered in according to the pharmacist. Cost quoted was 11 euros for 10 vials of 100mg injectable. That is cheaper (per mg) than what I purchase for my horse as I am purchasing the 6 ml vials.
Europeans are using IRAP for OA as well.
I canāt remember if itās approved here for humans or not; but when I looked into it (for my OA ridden spine) it either wasnāt approved or insurance didnāt pay for it.
Sigh.
[QUOTE=JSwan;6694669]
Europeans are using IRAP for OA as well.
I canāt remember if itās approved here for humans or not; but when I looked into it (for my OA ridden spine) it either wasnāt approved or insurance didnāt pay for it.
Sigh.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing that.
http://www.etsu.edu/com/familymed/researchdivision/scholarlyactivities/2010Articles/Fox_-Treatment_of_knee_osteoarthritis-_ER_2010.pdf
Thanks for the link JSwan.
Looks like an interesting read at just a glance. Iāll get at it this evening after dinner. Hubby is getting home and after a long flight from Europe he will want veg in front of the TV. So I can be next to him and have a little together timeā¦but tune out the tube this way. Win win!
I have rampant OA and took Celebrex for several months. At first it worked great, but after afew weeks it gave me horrid diarrhea!:eek: As an RN in long term care, I administered Celebrex to plenty of older patients and a high number of them had to stop due to uncontrollable loose stools.
As for Pentosan, I will Google, but can anyone tell me the generic name? I assume it is injected, not taken by mouth? Is it injected directly into the joint?
What is the cost?
