Our Appy is foundation, hes 16.3 and looks like a big fat Warmblood with an Appy booty.
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I really want to breed for an AA but I just know nothing about the Arab lines and not sure which ones to look at.
I know nothing of Deb Bennett or her work - does her study factor for the horseās use/activity level? Iāve heard generally that bigger horses may be more prone to soundness issues - but perhaps itās also fair to say that bigger horses are also more likely to be used for higher performance activities that cause more stress?
It would be interesting to compare bigger horses to say reining horses, who despite being tiny can also be more prone to hock problems later in life, after similarly demanding careers.
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I had a foundation appy. Bought her sight unseen and she was significantly smaller than advertised. I noticed from her All-Breeds pedigree that height seemed to skip generations, especially on the sire line. Her sire was supposedly 16.3, and she topped out at 15.1. I think her granddad was listed as 15.2 and great granddad as 17H.
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<3 that head and face.
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Thatās interesting because his sire was only 15h! So that makes sense.
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My appaloosa is a varnish. His summer markings are beautiful. In winter he just looks like a muddy gray horse. So far his face is pretty much shed and his neck about 50% shed-out and he seems to have a more purple tone than he did last year. He has white sclera both eyes and is the first horse iāve ever had with that. At first i didnāt like it, but to me now he looks like an exotic egyptian horse-god. lol
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Thatās a varnish for you. LOL I saw one that looked like he rolled in the bad corner of his stall for several months a year.
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Iām mostly familiar with the CMK lineages because those are the ones I have studied and that I own and breed. Since the CMK lines are āold-fashionedā/āworkingā type lines they have crossed well into Anglo-Arabs as well as in some Warmbloods and sport pony crosses.
Vermiculus and Snooze Alarmās sire, Serazim, is from mostly CMK lineages including the Skowronek son, Raseyn, who is known to have produced good jumpers. Interestingly to me, another Skowronek son, Raffles, is often found in sport pony breeding. The late great eventing phenom, Teddy OāConnorās Arabian great grandsire was intensely linebred to Raffles.
My FEI dressage stallion traces in sire line to an Arabian named Oran. Oran line stallions have been used several times in AA breeding in Europe and the UK. For instance, the Dutch bred Arabian stallion Noran (Oran x Nerina) foaled in 1956, sired the Anglo-Arab international show jumper, Rex the Robber, who competed internationally in the 70s with Alwin Schockemohle. https://sporthorse-data.com/pedigree/rex-robber (Not an AA, but also of note: Noran also sired a KWPN stallion named Olympus who was the 1st international GP horse to represent the Netherlands https://sporthorse-data.com/pedigree/olympus So that is an Arab stallion who sired TWO international competitors in two different sports.)
A UK bred Anglo-Arab stallion named Fairlyn Gemini https://sporthorse-data.com/pedigree/fairlyn-gemini has two lines to Oran. Fairlyn Gemini produced at least one 3*event horse. Fairlyn Gemini was approved for Trakehner breeding, too.
Anglo-Arabs have been used more for eventing, jumpers, hunters, and fox hunters than for dressage. The most depth of Anglo-Arab breeding via a specific lineage that I know of is Ann McKayās program in VA. Her foundation Arabian stallion, Aazrak, sired AAs and had offspring that were used in AA breeding. http://annmckayhorses.com/Aazrak.html and http://www.annmckayhorses.com/Houston.pdf https://sporthorse-data.com/pedigree/aazrak Ann still has a grandson of Aazrak, though he is 27 this year.
What drew me to the CMK lines was their soundness of mind and body and their wonderful work ethics/temperaments. I also noticed that horses from some CMK family lines kept appearing in pedigrees of both purebred and cross-bred sport horses --in eventing, upper level dressage, hunters, fox hunters, and jumpers. CMK lines also are common in top endurance horses. Since my own riding interest is in dressage (with some dabbling earlier in eventing), horses from lines with performance proof in those disciplines was appealing to me.
Your profile photo shows a jumping horse. Are you wanting an AA for dressage or for jumpers/eventing?
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I wouldāve speculated this to if my personal experience didnāt indicate otherwise.
Iāve been lucky enough to clinic with him a number of times and he is a fantastic coach. So much patience for horse and rider.
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Iām still a big supporter of not locking yourself into any one breed and looking for the individual who ticks off as many of your boxes as possible. My earlier post still stands as my ābest adviceā. I say that as a [former] breeder who does put a LOT of weight on bloodlines and pedigree. I earned my bronze on a saint of an Arab who I purchased from his previous owner who gave me the following parting comment, āIf you can channel his energy, you should be okay.ā LOL, he had been shown heavily but couldnāt get past training level with his then owner. We clicked and in addition to earning my bronze he showed both of my children the āropesā of showing. I have since owned, mostly CMK and polish bred Arabians who were equally talented and kind.
All the while I was living āthis experienceā I was breeding welsh cobs. I earned my silver on another saint of a horse (purebred welsh cob) who at coming 23 is still showing and teaching riders the finer points of the upper levels. I purchased him as a 2 year old and did all the training. I have trained a total of 3 purebred welsh cobs through fourth level from unbacked youngsters, two through PSG which I showed them successfully in recognized competition. My current āshow mountā is a 7 year old purebred who came from my breeding program. I have been long known for saying that āthis is MY breedā but donāt recommend them as a mount for just anyone. I still hold to that; but, if they are your taste and you click with an individual (assuming sound of body and mind), the boundaries are only those that you define, not the mount. There are some definite challenges known to be a bit more common of the breed (the same obviously has been said of Arabians); but, challenges are all that they are, not deal breakers or issues that make dressage impossible.
I have owned, trained and shown many other breeds but there are two that have always come in and out of my life due to their merits as well, thoroughbreds and morgans. While I was actively breeding, mares of both breeds were integral to my crossbred program and the individuals produced have gone on and done very well for their amateur owners - though, again, not without some challenges along the way. I found each breed (tb and morgan) to contribute significantly to the athleticism and handiness of the individual produced (not to take away from the respective welsh cob stallion). I point this out because I think you can find a cross-bred of many of the breeds referred to that could be your perfect mount. While Iām a huge fan of welsh cob x tb for eventing/combined training, one of the most successful programs I saw for amateur friendly mounts for the sport was a woman breeding ASB x Tbs and another breeding Morgan x Tbs. The individuals could stand on their dressage scores alone but their athleticism also saw huge talent and success over fences. Soundness seemed to be consistent among them as well.
Due to covid I found myself with a little extra cash and bored to tears. I wasnāt showing and had my retired section C welsh cob, my section D welsh cob who I was/am actively training and a love of a mustang whoās main job is trail horse extraordinaire. I had disbanded my entire breeding program and had nothing to bring alongā¦you know what they say about idle hands. So back in June I saw an individual who was 3, not broke, just gelded and suddenly for sale. As luck would have it, the breeder lived only 2 hours away. Here is a clip of what I brought home (taken last Friday). This guy was well handled but with no formal training. The first time he got on a trailer was the day I brought him home. I had been familiar with the breederās program for a few years. The breed I am very familiar with as my family has been producing individuals of a particular focus for quite literally a couple of centuries (the family gave to the state of Vermont stud bills from the late 1700s). Iām posting this clip despite the āgreennessā and risk of opening myself to all sorts of criticism for obvious reasons to demonstrate that there are still individuals out there that can be obtained for an amount well within your budget and are amateur friendly. I bought him for his mind, his breeding and his movement. No need for a PPE, Iām a vet. He doesnāt turn 4 until June. I backed him in Oct/Nov. He went on his first solo trail ride around Thanksgiving. The clip shows only the third time heās cantered under saddle. I bring them along slowly; but, heās headed to his first schooling show in a few weeks (mostly just to hang out). My daughter (adult) has ridden him on the trail without issue. Of course sheās an accomplished rider but Iām 57, almost 58 and this horse has been very, very easy to handle. They are out there, whether it comes in a Morgan wrapper like this one or another of the many capable breeds discussedā¦wellā¦you just have to know what youāre looking for and what you do well with. I knew the minute I interacted with this guy that he possesses the disposition that I prefer. His acceptance of the bridle will come with strength and better balance. His future isnāt yet determined but he definitely is showing me that I have several directions we could feasibly go 
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Your boy is the spitting image of my event horse from 40 years ago. Anyway, our photo was published in the Chronicle of the Horse jumping a table at just training level. This is just a brag about the horse. I was the poster child for a very limited funds, not talented rider who trained a horse who excelled in spite of me. He was a reject from a reining breeder, too tall as 2 y.o. so I got him for a song. Might be a good place to look.
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Iām going to read in this depth later and take notes but I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
Iām wanting a horse for me to event - or dressage if the horse doesnāt want to event. Iām hoping for more of a sporty type for upper level Eventing (not the highest levels lol). Dressage is an absolute passion of mine though and I currently have one TB training at 3rd so I really want something that will be able to cross rings if needed.
A lot of people suggest Connemara to me but they just donāt move well enough or gallop nice enough for what I am looking for.
Arabs have so many traits I think are positive to add and I donāt mind if they end up being a bit hot. I enjoy those horses and it will be for me and not resale.
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Appaloosas or Knabstruppers? I ask because thereās a Knabstrupper breeder in the area, and they are far better suited to dressage than appaloosas, but look similar.
edit: updated āsportā to ādressageā (more relevant to the OPās original query).
Sorry Iām going to highjack this thread again (Iām avoiding my real work and spending way too much time on COTH forums but this is way more fun) Deb would agree with you about stress taking itās toll. She addresses use/activity level. She also studies how to pick horses that have the best natural physical attributes to stay sound in particular disciplines and how to develop horses to deal with stresses we put on them.
That said, a fairer comparison would be between shorter reining horses and taller reining horses with similar conformation. She addresses how many factors, both inherent in specific horses and man made, impact soundness.
Take a look at her website. She bases her writings on conformation/proportions and biomechanics. Her website is www.equinestudies.org. (Try to look past the photo on the front page 
, she is a serious scientist having fun.)
My back is a testament that cleaning stalls and hauling hay is stressful 
. She would point out that I might have minimized the damage had I practiced proper strength training and started this work after my body had matured. She would also point out that my height (Iām a female close to 6ā tall) impacted my back damage.
She has several free resources in her knowledge base and forum sections. Itās interesting food for thought.
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Mine was an appaloosa.
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Heās gorgeousā¦
I have to disagree. Iāve seen a lot of Knabs and even more Appies and while Knabs might be better for dressage, Appies have a better form over fence and a better canter for jumping IMO.
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