I have been in the situation where I had 10 minutes between rides and 8 hours between rides. Many times. It happens.
I am glad I don’t have to show with some of the folks here. Or do any volunteer work at the shows they compete at.
Putting on shows is not a trivial endeavor.
I would also say that (right or wrong) the AA’s often get the short end of the stick when it comes to scheduling. Think about a typical day at a show for your trainer: 1 AA and 1 Jr rider doing TL1 and TL2 (both in the same classes) at starting at 8:00 AM and then T2 starting at 11:00 AM. At 10:00-ish, she’s got a PSG ride on a client horse. Next AA is riding 3rd-3 (going for her bronze) at 11:30 in another ring. She still has to find time to coach them all, warm up her FEI ride, get her young horse out and ready for his afternoon tests. All of that before lunch. Not to mention that while there are stalls available, this particular show venue is spread over 100 acres and right next to a main highway. Did this scenario actually happen? Yes - and it happens at every show for some trainers. So while I think it sucks that it’s usually the AA’s that end up getting screwed on the scheduling side, it’s often to accommodate busy trainers that they want to keep bringing those paying Ammies to the shows! 
[QUOTE=mjhco;8744052]
I have been in the situation where I had 10 minutes between rides and 8 hours between rides. Many times. It happens.
I am glad I don’t have to show with some of the folks here. Or do any volunteer work at the shows they compete at.
Putting on shows is not a trivial endeavor.[/QUOTE]
10 minutes is against either USEF or USDF rules. I don’t remember off the top of my head, but have looked at the rules for shows when a friend and her trainer were supposed to ride the same horse within 15 minutes or so of each other.
[QUOTE=netg;8744255]
10 minutes is against either USEF or USDF rules. I don’t remember off the top of my head, but have looked at the rules for shows when a friend and her trainer were supposed to ride the same horse within 15 minutes or so of each other.[/QUOTE]
DR 126.1.b
4. Dressage classes must be run in their entirety and rides may only be scheduled out of sequence to allow a reasonable interval between two or more horses entered by the same rider in the same class or in different
classes. Also, when preparing a time schedule consideration must be given to riders entered in more than one class or riding more than one horse.
5. At least 50 minutes must be scheduled between start times for a rider’s tests on different horses unless he/she has agreed, in writing, to a shorter interval between tests.
No rule for timing for same rider on the same horse.
[QUOTE=jdobbs64;8743829]
Our GMO just lost a fantastic scheduler who knew all the usual suspects, so she knew that rider A was with Barn X and Trainer Z, or the solo rider who has a 3 hr drive, etc- so although ours are just schooling shows, she would work her butt off to ensure the day flowed smoothly and rides were spaced legally and as reasonably as could be done. Her schedules are works of art.
She’s been replaced by a computer program with no such sense, and the schedule has suffered terribly. Those who elected to go that route were entirely deaf to her very vocal concerns; sometimes you try and try and lose out anyway and the club has to learn from its mistakes.[/QUOTE]
Your scheduler still has the option of looking at the computer generated schedule and adjusting it. As an officer in our GMO (we have 5 large schooling shows/year,multiple rings and multiple dressage disciplines), I can tell you that poor scheduling WILL not only lose your show competitors but also members.
L
the AA’s often get the short end of the stick
seriously???
I am only familiar with Fox Village, but scheduling is not fully automatic.
YOU have to tell it when to start each class, then it assigns ride times within that class.
YOU have to shuffle the order of the riders within that class to make things work.
YOU have to tell it whether you want to see horses or riders that have ride times closer than the number of minutes YOU tell it, (and you have to do them separately), then YOU have to figure out how to shuffle riders/classes to resolve that conflict.
God forbid you make an error inputting a start time for a class. It won’t tell you, you have to catch it when you print out the daysheets and see that things are messed up.
And many times, just adjusting one class’s schedule affects EVERY ride after it, and YOU have to readjust the start time for each of those classes.
i go through a lot of hours and a LOT of paper preparing a schedule.
[QUOTE=Mondo;8744098]
I would also say that (right or wrong) the AA’s often get the short end of the stick when it comes to scheduling. Think about a typical day at a show for your trainer: 1 AA and 1 Jr rider doing TL1 and TL2 (both in the same classes) at starting at 8:00 AM and then T2 starting at 11:00 AM. At 10:00-ish, she’s got a PSG ride on a client horse. Next AA is riding 3rd-3 (going for her bronze) at 11:30 in another ring. She still has to find time to coach them all, warm up her FEI ride, get her young horse out and ready for his afternoon tests. All of that before lunch. Not to mention that while there are stalls available, this particular show venue is spread over 100 acres and right next to a main highway. Did this scenario actually happen? Yes - and it happens at every show for some trainers. So while I think it sucks that it’s usually the AA’s that end up getting screwed on the scheduling side, it’s often to accommodate busy trainers that they want to keep bringing those paying Ammies to the shows! :([/QUOTE]
Oh…hahahahaha…trainers? Seriously, I do know that’s a real problem for a busy trainer and her students. But I guess I’m just in another (low income) world, and one tends to focus on that and not on “other people’s problems” LOL. I have an instructor/trainer, but my horse is not “in training.” I trailer to her facility for lessons. If a show is close and she doesn’t have a full day of lessons scheduled, she will come and coach me at a show. Otherwise, I’m on my own. I can hardly ask her to take a day off, drive two hours to a show, just for me or one or two other of her students and give up a full day of income. So, additionally, it is a bit more stressful coping with unfriendly schedules when you’re on your own. I do often have a friend with me, so there’s coat holder, drink handler, commiserator or congratulator!, etc. to ease the way a little, but it’s sometimes just me, and those 6-8 hours between rides can be really discouraging - it does make one want to scratch and just head home, but usually, I’m trying to at least qualify for All Breeds and frankly, can’t afford to toss the money away without making the effort to show, so…Happiest show I ever had was many years ago when the entries at 1st level were, for some reason low (lots of TL, lots of 2nd Level, only two riders in each class at 1st). I rode 1st Test 2, walked my horse around for 10 minutes, then did Test 3. Scores were up within 30 mins and I was gone.
I haven’t read through all of the posts, but I think this is hilarious because I just got my ride times for a show this weekend. My ride times are 8:00 am and 5:53 pm. And this happens to be for my 4 year old who is new to showing. I guess she will learn about standing around for hours in order to ride a 5 minute baby test! I do have a stall, but still. My hubby’s ride times are 9am and 4:30 ( those seem wonderful compared to mine!). I don’t think the OP has much to complain about.
It’s too bad that there isn’t some sort of program that allows riders to select their ride times when an online entry is made. My vet clinic has some sort of program that allows clients to schedule their own appt times online.
[QUOTE=HappyTalk;8745253]
It’s too bad that there isn’t some sort of program that allows riders to select their ride times when an online entry is made. My vet clinic has some sort of program that allows clients to schedule their own appt times online.[/QUOTE]
I always prefer morning rides - and in the Summer, most people would fight over the morning rides. OTOH, some prefer afternoon rides, so we could have one 2nd level ride at 9 a.m., 3 at 10:30, 2 at 3:30, and now you have THAT problem. Most judges do NOT like judging classes out of order, and the rule book discourages it. And - how do you place a class when half the competitors have already gone home?
Then -would it be first come, first serve? If everyone wants that coveted 10 a.m. ride time? Who gets it?
There is just no easy way to make everyone happy. Last year, one of the local shows (a one ring show) decided to put ONE class from each level in the morning (it gets really hot here), so everyone would have one class before lunch - well, the problem with that - some of us had a class at 8 a.m. and a 2nd class at 3 p.m… And some people were hoping to use (for example) First 3 as their warm up class and 2nd 1 as the “real” class, but they got their 2nd level class in the morning and their First level class at the end of the day. That was one of the worst scheduling mix ups I ever saw for a one ring show.
I personally would rather have my two tests 30 minutes (or less) apart - have a good warm up, ride a test, have a short cool down then a very short 2nd warm up, ride the 2nd test, and be done. But I know a lot of people who would like to ride a single test, then have at least an hour off their horse, then warm up again for the next test.
There are just so many variables, the scheduler can’t make everyone happy. I get it, I have scratched tests because of cruddy schedules - and it irritates me, and I can’t afford it either, but… I also understand show management’s side!
I think anyone who has never made even just a schooling show schedule should volunteer to do it. Just a normal, all day, one ring show is a pain. Don’t whine unless and until you have any idea how hard it actually is to put one together.
[QUOTE=jdobbs64;8745576]
I think anyone who has never made even just a schooling show schedule should volunteer to do it. Just a normal, all day, one ring show is a pain. Don’t whine unless and until you have any idea how hard it actually is to put one together.[/QUOTE]
Been there, done that, and I’ll still complain: 8 hours between rides is ridiculous. Some of it boils down to “We must accommodate the IMPORTANT people…”.
[QUOTE=netg;8744255]
10 minutes is against either USEF or USDF rules. I don’t remember off the top of my head, but have looked at the rules for shows when a friend and her trainer were supposed to ride the same horse within 15 minutes or so of each other.[/QUOTE]
You are thinking of the USEF rule that dictates 50 minutes between rides on DIFFERENT horses. 10 minutes between rides on the same horse is totally legal. That is the only timing rule on the books.
[QUOTE=yaya;8744561]
I am only familiar with Fox Village, but scheduling is not fully automatic.
YOU have to tell it when to start each class, then it assigns ride times within that class.
YOU have to shuffle the order of the riders within that class to make things work.
YOU have to tell it whether you want to see horses or riders that have ride times closer than the number of minutes YOU tell it, (and you have to do them separately), then YOU have to figure out how to shuffle riders/classes to resolve that conflict.
God forbid you make an error inputting a start time for a class. It won’t tell you, you have to catch it when you print out the daysheets and see that things are messed up.
And many times, just adjusting one class’s schedule affects EVERY ride after it, and YOU have to readjust the start time for each of those classes.
i go through a lot of hours and a LOT of paper preparing a schedule.[/QUOTE]
Okay, that is amazingly informative. I assumed that you could just input all the rider/horse/class pairs and it would generate all possible valid solutions. Seriously, this is a straight forward resource allocation problem. I’m shocked that the software is still really just pretty interface where the human has to do all the hard lifting.
[QUOTE=slp2;8745245]
I haven’t read through all of the posts, but I think this is hilarious because I just got my ride times for a show this weekend. My ride times are 8:00 am and 5:53 pm. And this happens to be for my 4 year old who is new to showing. I guess she will learn about standing around for hours in order to ride a 5 minute baby test! I do have a stall, but still. My hubby’s ride times are 9am and 4:30 ( those seem wonderful compared to mine!). I don’t think the OP has much to complain about.[/QUOTE]
The show I’m talking about has a couple of people with 7 & 8 hour times because someone decided putting T2 and T3 as the first & last classes of the day was a good idea. Might even be the same show.
The idea that someone thought a 10 hour wait time was appropriate is mind boggling. You have my sympathy. That sort of experience is NOT needed for a horse just learning about showing.
[QUOTE=AltersAreUs;8746041]
Okay, that is amazingly informative. I assumed that you could just input all the rider/horse/class pairs and it would generate all possible valid solutions. Seriously, this is a straight forward resource allocation problem. I’m shocked that the software is still really just pretty interface where the human has to do all the hard lifting.[/QUOTE]
I get it - you’re pissed about the wait. You’ve insisted a couple of times that it is a resource allocation and should not be hard to do.
My experience is with a different software, and I’m reluctant to name it since I have not cleared discussing it here with the owner of the software. I will only speak in general terms. My experience was slightly more automated than Fox Village - but you still needed to do quite a bit of it by hand. Things like you have to specify which ring you want FEI in if you want it all in the same ring. And you have to quite a bit of manual settings so that the riders attempting to qualify for any sort of award or championships do not inadvertently end up with the same judge for two or three days. Not ideal for many award programs.
I asked the question in general, but I’ll ask you specifically - have you ever scheduled a show? If not, why not volunteer to help next time?
I have no idea what you do for a living - but are you a database programmer? I can use a database but could never in a million years write code, so I would not begin know what it would take to get it as automated as you are envisioning. If you know how to write code, maybe that is why it seems so ridiculous to you.
[QUOTE=slp2;8745245]
I haven’t read through all of the posts, but I think this is hilarious because I just got my ride times for a show this weekend. My ride times are 8:00 am and 5:53 pm. And this happens to be for my 4 year old who is new to showing. I guess she will learn about standing around for hours in order to ride a 5 minute baby test! I do have a stall, but still. My hubby’s ride times are 9am and 4:30 ( those seem wonderful compared to mine!). I don’t think the OP has much to complain about.[/QUOTE]
Oh, if your location is accurate, I totally understand. I’m at the same show this weekend and you’ve hit on why once I was past training/first I stopped showing multiple classes a day. That show is notorious for that split for those types of classes. At least it’s not supposed to be quite so hot this weekend (and if we’re lucky - maybe dry - but I’m not holding my breath).
Good luck and I’ll try to see one of your rides!
rothmpp—Thanks for your sympathy! I’m sure it’s the same show we will be at! And I noticed they revised my ride times (heh, heh). The first ride is now earlier (7:44 am!). After sharing with others, I have now been officially awarded the winner of “Stinkiest Ride Times_Ever”! Mostly, I just feel sorry for my young horse! It’s a good thing that she is such a level-headed horse (normally) and will probably just take it in stride.
And yes—hopefully we get some relief from the heat! Good luck to you too!
[QUOTE=AltersAreUs;8743908]
Is the scheduling software really that bad? I would have thought that a) it would allow things like “average of an hour wait time” as part of the constraints going in and b) manually setting certain riders/classes to general time zones, like FEI classes should be in the morning, freestyles over lunch sort of thing. I haven’t used any of them but seriously, in the grand scheme of things, scheduling a dressage show is not a hard mathematical problem. There aren’t THAT many constraints or data points from a computers’ point of view.[/QUOTE]
I also use the Fox Village software and, while it is hugely better than doing everything on paper, it has absolutely none of the settings you describe. As someone else mentioned, I have to input start times for each class. If I change one, all those after it have to be changed. If I take someone out of order, I have to do some rather complicated fiddling. It doesn’t detect errors (eg. overlapping times, because I didn’t adjust a class properly, or I changed someone’s class and didn’t re-run the schedule), so I have to find and fix those myself. If it detects a conflict, I have to manually resolve it. I have to input all breaks and shift them if anything ahead of them changes.
Now that said, I definitely don’t have consecutive classes within a level (eg. T2 and T3) significantly separated. But no guarantees on consecutive tests in different levels (eg. First 3 and Second 1) - just depends on what tests I have, how many people are entered in each, and what scheduling requests I have that I am trying to accommodate!
I do feel your pain and would really like to think that the huge gaps you describe were avoidable. However, until you try scheduling a show, please don’t tell those of us who spend many, many hours doing so that it is “not a hard mathematical problem!”
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
