Offshoot: Two Quarter Horses allowed to keep Arabian National Championship wins

[grayarabs]

Chall - again lovely boy you had. The last photo I could not get to work - not could I find him in the Arab datasource.

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I don’t think I have ever seen an ugly Arabian. Homely - yes a few.

I would like to see photo examples of “ugly”.

In the meantime I went to allbreedpedigree and looked at some ancestors of Bask. Mostly the horses are not posed and perhaps some bad angles or just unflattering photos.

Three I found to be “not so pretty”:

Sultanka
Lysa
Siglavi Bagdady

Interesting though - the photo of the gray stallion Amarath b. 1881 - not dishy - almost “Roman”?.

Oh - where was I just reading (ABN?) about an Arabian stallion from the 1800’s - that had some warmblood in him. ? If so - is name known?

I also remember the rumors I heard 30+ years ago that Bask was not 100% pure.

Anyway - if a horse has 50% Arab blood - you should be able to see it and have no doubts.

How could so many Arab “professionals” miss so badly with the two QH’s?

And possibly a third - the supposed HA mare Classic Playgirl.

[californianinkansas]

[QUOTE=Chall;7938746]
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8325626@N04/809356204/lightbox/

I got him as a long yearling, above he was four. The first photo was taken a month before he died this spring, at age 26.

If you are an Arab expert look him up in the registry. Most people around horses long enough know that you can get plenty of 100% purebreds that aren’t typical.

You might find this an interesting read. http://forums.arabianbreeders.net/index.php?/topic/28291-curiouscan-you-identify-bloodlines-by-looking/

Btw, I would have guessed the first was a quarter horse. Which brings this sidetrack back to the subject of this thread.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.:yes:
Sterling, my grey Arabian gelding is 100% Al Khamsa. He looks like a Quarter Horse with a shorter back and a more refined head. And he has the mellowest, sweetest disposition. Completely bombproof.

[Chall]

@grayarabs;7940177

Chall - again lovely boy you had. The last photo I could not get to work - not could I find him in the Arab datasourc

My typo in leaving out the leading “A”

[TABLE=“width: 100%”]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 7”][B]AR BEN JAMIN AHR*415361 Grey 1988
blood typed and parentage verified.

[/B][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
Omergard, he had al-marah radames way back. Funny, this thread had me looking for arabs and I stumbled on al marah and thought “yeah, somehow I like those” . Coincidence? Generally though I don’t know anything about lines, just like crabbet and polish/Russian horses I’ve seen.
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[Bluey]

Talking about how old time arabians looked, we had mostly quarter horses, but I like arabians and had two registered ones over the years.
One looked like an arabian, but more square, not as light as most tend to be,
The other, “is that an ayrab?” is what I generally heard from others.
He came from California halter lines, but not the later extreme lines I have seen:

[Chall]

I think I’ve seen other shots of your very cute gray colt. He looks like a pistol.

Your other Arab looks a bit more relaxed, though it’s harder to see in that long shot.

[Ghazzu]

@grayarabs;7940177

Oh - where was I just reading (ABN?) about an Arabian stallion from the 1800’s - that had some warmblood in him. ? If so - is name known?

You may be thinking of the questionable provenance of Skowronek’s pedigree.

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=SportArab;7938190]
Please do explain what you mean. I think it’s rather stunningly corrupt to allow wins to stand when the horses are not qualified because they are not the right breed. Shouldn’t have been at the show in the first place and therefore can’t win anything there.[/QUOTE]

I cannot speak for Equibrit, but in my opinion, being mad at the owner that was also duped seems wrong. The owner spent a lot of time and money in pursuit of that award so to tell him he cannot keep it because someone else lied to him, just seems like sour grapes.

I would be angry at the association for not having stricter controls and at the person that sold that horse to the owner.

When I was in high school, I heard a few times “we can get QH papers for that horse” spoken about a few thoroughbreds that looked and moved like quarter horses. They would have done well on the quarter horse circuit, save for their breeding. These were sale horses, so theoretically as soon as papers were obtained and sold to the new owners, no one would be any the wiser.

To my knowledge, no one ever accepted the offer, but I was a teenager then.

[SportArab]

[QUOTE=Ajierene;7940828]
I cannot speak for Equibrit, but in my opinion, being mad at the owner that was also duped seems wrong. The owner spent a lot of time and money in pursuit of that award so to tell him he cannot keep it because someone else lied to him, just seems like sour grapes.

I would be angry at the association for not having stricter controls and at the person that sold that horse to the owner.

When I was in high school, I heard a few times “we can get QH papers for that horse” spoken about a few thoroughbreds that looked and moved like quarter horses. They would have done well on the quarter horse circuit, save for their breeding. These were sale horses, so theoretically as soon as papers were obtained and sold to the new owners, no one would be any the wiser.

To my knowledge, no one ever accepted the offer, but I was a teenager then.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhhhhh… and what’s your feeling about the folks who showed true half-Arabians who got beat by the fraudulently registered one? Too bad for them?

It’s not an attack on the owner to say that he should give back the trophies, etc., that were illegally won by his horses. It’s just an attempt at fairness to everyone else, not to mention an attempt to set the record straight.

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=SportArab;7940881]
Ahhhhhhh… and what’s your feeling about the folks who showed true half-Arabians who got beat by the fraudulently registered one? Too bad for them?

It’s not an attack on the owner to say that he should give back the trophies, etc., that were illegally won by his horses. It’s just an attempt at fairness to everyone else, not to mention an attempt to set the record straight.[/QUOTE]

If my part-bred Arabian lost out to his, I would not have any ill will toward the owner. I would like to have the one place move up in standings, but if he wanted to keep it, I could understand that as well.

If he KNEW about the fraud, then I would feel differently. According to the limited information I have, he DID NOT know about the fraud. This is what determines my anger placement.

Would it be nice of him to give up his winnings? Sure, but I would not expect it. Does it suck for me? Sure, but that’s life.

[SportArab]

I’m sorry, but the folks who showed horses that were legally allowed to be in those classes should get their ribbons, trophies and whatever monetary prizes they are due. The guy with the fradulently registered horses should not walk away from this whether or not he knew about it (and the more info that comes out on this the harder it is to believe he had no clue).

The job of the association should be to distribute prizes only to horses that had a right to be in the class - and that would be half arabians, not quarter horses.

What I can’t understand is why the owner of the quarter horses wants to keep prizes he won dishonestly (it’s dishonest whether he knew he was cheating or not).

[dressagetraks]

I have to agree, I can’t see letting the results stand if they weren’t in fact eligible, whether the owner knew or not.

Haven’t there been a few cases in TB racing of misidentity? That’s not quite the same thing, but I can see similarities. Such as one case I remember reading years ago of Trainer X getting two plain bays, not yet tattooed, from the farm which arrived mixed up, either by the shippers or by the farm staff. Trainer X was told on arrival that they were Horse A and Horse B, and he honestly believed that. He had no intentions to defraud anyone at all. Horse A was entered in a race and either placed or won and was subsequently found somehow to be Horse B instead. I believe the horse was disqualified by the stewards from all placings and money won when he was going unintentionally under the identity of the other horse.

[Silverbridge]

I’m curious not only as to why the owner wants to keep the fraudulently registered horses’ awards and titles, but also, whether he now wants to keep the horses.

[grayarabs]

The owner of the two imposters sold them.
They were purchased from the Hatfields.

Info on another suspicious horse: Classic Playgirl
2009 Half-Arab National Champion
http://www.wolfpoint.net/awards.html See second photo.
No show record since 2009. No progeny.
QH sire is listed as Challenger 626 AQHA 3832158
The Hatfields were trainers for Wolf Point ~2007/2008

Where is this mare?
Can someone with AQHA database do some sleuthing?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=grayarabs;7941540]
The owner of the two imposters sold them.
They were purchased from the Hatfields.

Info on another suspicious horse: Classic Playgirl
2009 Half-Arab National Champion
http://www.wolfpoint.net/awards.html See second photo.
No show record since 2009. No progeny.
QH sire is listed as Challenger 626 AQHA 3832158
The Hatfields were trainers for Wolf Point ~2007/2008

Where is this mare?
Can someone with AQHA database do some sleuthing?[/QUOTE]

You know, when someone looks a horse up they have paid a membership and have to pay so many $ to get the information.

While I do look horses up for posters that bought or are somehow connected to a horse they want information for, I don’t think it is right to go look for information just for some to possibly cause others trouble on the internet forums, as that request would do and definitively not a place to spend the money to do that.

[ambar]

@grayarabs;7938638

Chall - love the horse - but that just cannot be. I would not think it possible a PB - even a part Arab -could have a nose like that.

Believe it. That there is sometimes referred to as “the *Raffles bump”. Look closely and you’ll see the slight dish above it.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Chall;7940534]
I think I’ve seen other shots of your very cute gray colt. He looks like a pistol.

Your other Arab looks a bit more relaxed, though it’s harder to see in that long shot.[/QUOTE]

Here you can see in this other picture, when I first was starting him on cattle, from the front and closer, he does look like an arabian.
He just learned to relax and move easily behind cattle:

[Chall]

Yes, in the long shot he is relaxed like a QH head down. In the front on pic he seems a little more alert.
i got a rope burn from my horse taking off down the street, I was walking him past the cows who lived right next door to him. Despite years of being pastured next to him, he never got over his fear of cows.
I don’t get to see Arabs cutting cows, so I’m pleased to see yours:)
(I am allowed to put smilies in, lol)

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Chall;7941688]
Yes, in the long shot he is relaxed like a QH head down. In the front on pic he seems a little more alert.
i got a rope burn from my horse taking off down the street, I was walking him past the cows who lived right next door to him. Despite years of being pastured next to him, he never got over his fear of cows.
I don’t get to see Arabs cutting cows, so I’m pleased to see yours:)
(I am allowed to put smilies in, lol)[/QUOTE]

Here are pictures of the other one, one around cattle.
I was looking around and found them stored in the computer.
He looked so scrawny when I first got him, then he filled in and was nice looking, in his arabian way.

Arabians were some of the crosses with the original quarter horses and they come thru some lines.
I would not be surprised if some quarter horses could have passed for half arabians, especially Doc Bar bred ones.

My horse had more bottom than all our other cowhorses put together.
They would conserve energy, he was always ready to spend some, never tired:

[oldernewbie]

UPDATE: It appears, though not yet officially announced, that AHA has reversed itself. I am very hopeful that the rightful winners are going to get their due.

ABN reported that Datasource changes were going on last night.

Fingers crossed!!!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=oldernewbie;7949841]
UPDATE: It appears, though not yet officially announced, that AHA has reversed itself. I am very hopeful that the rightful winners are going to get their due.

ABN reported that Datasource changes were going on last night.

Fingers crossed!!![/QUOTE]

Yes, looking in from the outside, it seems that giving the rightful winners their due is the proper way to go, they did earn that win after all, if it had not been for those “dark horses”.