Oh dear, clueless new boarder (and a question about tom thumb bits)

I just took in a boarder last week. Nice young man, but oh so clueless. He just bought himself a bridle and tom thumb bit, which he proudly showed me. I don’t know a lot about western bridles and bits, but with the curb chain attached where the reins should go, and the headstall attached where the curb chain should go, it was pretty obvious something was not quite right!

Now, I do have a question. Are tom thumb bits harsh? I’ve only ever ridden with plain snaffles, and all I know about bits with shanks is that they provide leverage. Is this really, really bad for a green rider? All he wants to do is trail ride. The horse is really well broke and very sweet.

Get rid of the Tom Thumb bit. Not a nice bit. Go and get a correction bit. It’s still a leverage bit but better and the horse is probably used to
It if he’s a western horse. It’s very common and what I use for my everyday bit.

toss the tomb thumb and send him to a myler but dealer. Much better quality and most dealers will be more then happy to educate him and you (if you feel like it) about the advantages and disadvantages of each bit.

I would make sure that the curb is really loose, because that’s where a green rider is likely to cause themselves problems with too much contact and an unhappy, balking horse. Assuming of course that the horse has decent brakes and isn’t a pig-headed runaway.

It may or may not be too much bit depending on how the guy rides and how well the horse is trained. Does the horse neck rein well? A Tom Thumb should be ok for a horse who neck reins, but if he needs to use two hands to steer they really don’t work all that well.

[QUOTE=IndysMom;8528895]
Get rid of the Tom Thumb bit. Not a nice bit. Go and get a correction bit. It’s still a leverage bit but better and the horse is probably used to
It if he’s a western horse. It’s very common and what I use for my everyday bit.[/QUOTE]

I had recommended a plain snaffle and, in fact, offered one of mine for him to try before he buys, but he went out and bought this thing anyway. It is a pretty bit. Does it make a difference (regarding harshness) if it’s double jointed with a roller in the middle?

Time to put your schoolmarm cap on. Explain how the bit , reins and curb go together. You might also want to explain the difference between a snaffle and a Tom Thumb, neither of which is suitable for a green rider, unless accidentally their hands are very quiet. But before you jump in, try to see if a mullen mouth is suitable for the horse. Some western horses just need the slightest touch of the reins and so a Tom Thumb isn’t bad, but a short shanked low port bit would be safer.

Supposedly the horse neck reins, not sure if the rider knows how to neck rein, though.

I already kind of cringed at the length of the shank. The horse is awfully sweet on the ground, but I haven’t seen him ridden yet.

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8528912]
Time to put your schoolmarm cap on. Explain how the bit , reins and curb go together. You might also want to explain the difference between a snaffle and a Tom Thumb, neither of which is suitable for a green rider, unless accidentally their hands are very quiet. But before you jump in, try to see if a mullen mouth is suitable for the horse. Some western horses just need the slightest touch of the reins and so a Tom Thumb isn’t bad, but a short shanked low port bit would be safer.[/QUOTE]

Schoolmarm cap … ha ha! I need to educate myself on these western bits. Maybe I can find a good explanation online I can share with him.

[QUOTE=Miss Anne Thrope;8528887]
I just took in a boarder last week. Nice young man, but oh so clueless. He just bought himself a bridle and tom thumb bit, which he proudly showed me. I don’t know a lot about western bridles and bits, but with the curb chain attached where the reins should go, and the headstall attached where the curb chain should go, it was pretty obvious something was not quite right!

Now, I do have a question. Are tom thumb bits harsh? I’ve only ever ridden with plain snaffles, and all I know about bits with shanks is that they provide leverage. Is this really, really bad for a green rider? All he wants to do is trail ride. The horse is really well broke and very sweet.[/QUOTE]

I just got my 7 year old gelding back from a trainer after 75 days. The guy did an outstanding job with the horse on “filling in some holes” that had developed. He used a Tom Thumb bit. I rode he boy while he was at the trainers in thata Tom Thumb bit. It was a complete non-event.

Now that we’re home he working very nicely in a full cheek snaffle. I’ll keep him there for a couple of months as we work on keeping him balanced and moving easily. I’d really like to training him to the bit and bradoon. We might do that later int he summer or maybe next fall. We’ll see.

I don’t use the Tom Thumb. If I need a mild curb I’ll use a Pelham.

G.

A Tom Thumb is the ‘lesser evil’ of western bits-- snaffle joint, no high/solid port, shorter shanks, less curb chain pressure (unless chain is tight while bridle is ‘at rest’ so to speak) – and they do fit with the neck reining aspect of western riding better than an English snaffle–that is IF he does indeed ride with one hand. But as we know, any bit can be severe in the wrong hands.

Quite a dilemma-- especially since horse is sweet and well broke.

If this guy has owned this horse for a while, then it might be interesting to know what sort of bit he was using before the Tom Thumb appeared. If he just bought this horse last week, it would be good to know what kind of bit the horse was going in before. Just as a comparison.

I suppose I would watch him ride for a while with the Tom Thumb-- fitted correctly–and see how he gets on with it BEFORE you get further involved. You don’t want to start criticizing and changing his ‘horse dude’ confidence. Might create a resentment problem, etc.

If the horse goes well and the guy is not a flailing mouth abuser-- then all might be well. But if it goes south you should step in and offer an alternative bit suggestion.

First, is they rider actually looking for/willing to take your advice?

If so, there are probably a million better bits for horse and rider, but it’s hard to say which one without knowing more about both.

If no, I would show him how to adjust the curb chain very lose. (How does the new bit fit? Oh, it looks good pretty good. Here, let me show you how this to fit this part.) Maybe also offer him the basics of neck reining and encourage a neck strap so he’s pulling on that instead of the mouth and to help steady his hands in one place.

I don’t like Tom Thumbs, but there are much worse bits out there. With the curb chain long, as long as he’s not abusive with his hands, both horse and rider should survive.

Well, bad news. I just watched him ride, his first ride since he bought him last week. It’s bitter cold and WINDY today, and some girl came out with some saddles to try on the horse and then they took him out to the arena. DH and I watched from the kitchen window.

The girl got on first, and honestly, you could tell she thinks she’s a rider, so she took the horse up and down the one long side, the whole time with horse’s nose pointed toward barn. Walk up the long side, run back. About 5 or 6 times. Then the guy got on, so of course the horse did the same thing. He can NOT ride. Two hands on the reins. Can’t sit a trot. Horse cantered, looked like he tried to stop him, hands WAY in the air, pulling … back? Up? His hands were literally above his head.

I am not a boarding barn. I’m a private barn with extra stalls (yes, yes, yes … heavily insured!). I intend to have a chat with him and recommend some lessons. If he’s not open to some of my advice, he’ll have to move. The biggest problem may be advice he’s getting from others (the girl that was here … didn’t see much good that she was doing with the horse except showing off how she could ride fast … ugh!).

OR … a more optimistic outlook … maybe once the weather settles, the horse will be less energetic.

[QUOTE=Miss Anne Thrope;8528952]
Well, bad news. I just watched him ride, his first ride since he bought him last week. It’s bitter cold and WINDY today, and some girl came out with some saddles to try on the horse and then they took him out to the arena. DH and I watched from the kitchen window.

The girl got on first, and honestly, you could tell she thinks she’s a rider, so she took the horse up and down the one long side, the whole time with horse’s nose pointed toward barn. Walk up the long side, run back. About 5 or 6 times. Then the guy got on, so of course the horse did the same thing. He can NOT ride. Two hands on the reins. Can’t sit a trot. Horse cantered, looked like he tried to stop him, hands WAY in the air, pulling … back? Up? His hands were literally above his head.

I am not a boarding barn. I’m a private barn with extra stalls (yes, yes, yes … heavily insured!). I intend to have a chat with him and recommend some lessons. If he’s not open to some of my advice, he’ll have to move. The biggest problem may be advice he’s getting from others (the girl that was here … didn’t see much good that she was doing with the horse except showing off how she could ride fast … ugh!).

OR … a more optimistic outlook … maybe once the weather settles, the horse will be less energetic.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think you’re going to be able to solve this one. I have a private barn and have taken in a few boarders, but I would never take in a boarder that didn’t know how to ride. I don’t have the time or the patience (or the willingness to risk my insurance) to deal with that.

I suspect that the young lady will be a chronic fly in the ointment, and so long as she is around the horse will not settle. So for your sanity’s sake, I would suggest either lessons, or OUT.

A boarder like this showed up at my barn, he talked like he knew how to ride and had horses as a younger person but he didn’t know how to put a bridle on or girth up his saddle. Because he thinks he knows what he’s doing, and because he doesn’t respect women as being knowledge, he was very very slow and resistant at learning anything.

In addition he bought a horse that was very green under saddle and had horrible ground manners but he thought it was the most perfect horse ever so he was very insulted at the idea that she was not only green but a bit of a pig.

He eventually scared himself when he fell off a few times (at the mounting block!) and has given up on riding and is now working on showmanship.

I would not expect your boarder to change, and I would expect you to develop a whole new set of rules to keep you safe around him and him safe around himself. It will all depend on how safe you are, how accepting you are of him doing things like leaving his horse loose in the arena while you are riding, and how well he listens to your instructions.

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8528959]
I suspect that the young lady will be a chronic fly in the ointment, and so long as she is around the horse will not settle. So for your sanity’s sake, I would suggest either lessons, or OUT.[/QUOTE]

That would be my choice as well. A cute little girlfriend who thinks she’s a trainer is not going to blend with your barn atmosphere and suggesting lessons will only make it worse since that’s whose going to “teach”.

Think the Tom Thumb is the least of your problems

Yep, I think you’re all right. That 15-minute little scenario I watched from my kitchen window certainly did tell a story. Sigh.

I’ve had good luck with boarders in the past, but they were all known commodities, one young girl in hunt seat lessons and other fellow dressage riders. Live and learn, I guess.

[QUOTE=danacat;8528945]
A Tom Thumb is the ‘lesser evil’ of western bits-- snaffle joint, no high/solid port, shorter shanks, less curb chain pressure (unless chain is tight while bridle is ‘at rest’ so to speak) – and they do fit with the neck reining aspect of western riding better than an English snaffle–that is IF he does indeed ride with one hand. But as we know, any bit can be severe in the wrong hands…[/QUOTE]

Going to strongly disagree that a Tom Thumb is a “less severe” bit in choices among Western Style bits. They can be quite nasty in the inexperienced hands of new riders. Tom Thumb is billed as “a training bit” because of the broken mouth and shorter shanks, but still has PLENTY of bad thing going for it.

First is that it is not a quiet bit, with all the joints of mouth and shanks. Something is moving all the time with loose rein weight, horse tongue, then add in rider moving the reins to hold them tighter or for stopping. Seldom is the bit ever pulled on evenly, and when it is pulled both the rein rings head towards each other to create the “nutcracker” effect as mouth joint folds, hits horse upper palate, while sides pull inward crushing the lower jawbone. Gets worse on horse with any strong pulling!! Horse is most often confused because the bit is not steady, not giving good communication between rider and horse.

While English riders don’t like them much, a solid mouthpiece with swiveling sides is able to give some curb effect, yet stay even in the horse mouth while traveling along in the ring or on a trail ride. I have had great success with the Uxeter bit, which is often MISTAKENLY called a Kimberwick with slots in the D rings. I am NOT suggesting a Kimberwick, they are also a fairly useless bit despite their curb chain because the reins just slide up the D rings when pulled. Curb chain never really goes into effect. With reins in the slots of the Uxeter bit, the rider is able to use a little curb pressure, bit doesn’t fold in horse mouth when reins are pulled. Probably as much curb pressure as is needed with new rider, young rider, to keep control and stop the horse as needed. The swivel cheeks allow putting your hand out to the side to “lead” horse around if needed. Horse still should neck rein fine using this bit. As shown in the link, these bits will sell under both names, but you NEED the slots to make it an effective bit. They have a small port for tongue relief, solid mouthpiece of a good diameter, not thin to cut into the bars of mouth.

http://www.doversaddlery.com/uxeter-kimberwicke-bit/p/X1-01108/?ids=1dujro2vs3awtix3s31e4pwk

As the BO, I would insist on this guy getting lessons. You can point out that teaching horse BAD things is a lot more expensive to train out, than doing it right the first time. Horse will be worth MUCH LESS with bad riding, bad habits if he wants to sell it later. Girlie will be your problem, she already knows it all, will blow your advice to him off. You COULD mention that guys who ride WELL, usually are very popular in horse gatherings, where there are MANY nice, pretty girls. My son told his friends about this and they were amazed when they came to horse things with him at the ratio of girls to guys. Especially if they offered to carry a bucket for the girl! There have to be some Western Folks giving lessons around where he can go, maybe ride under another guy he would listen to. My husband liked lessons from men, they just communicated well together. Husband ended up a very good rider, Western and English, got into Jumping which he enjoyed a lot.

If the guy won’t do lessons, keeps letting the girl treat the horse poorly, he needs to move on. Going to get in trouble pretty quick.

If you insist he gets lessons, or leaves, then make sure you get to ‘approve’ the trainer. Otherwise, it will be the girlfriend or some other incompetent trainer, on your property, and without insurance. I hope she signed a waiver to ride, or be on your property.

Since you lease a stall to the guy presumably he is covered under your liability insurance and has signed a release/waiver of liability.
The girl really has no business riding on your property as an invitee of your boarder, which gives you the right to tell him - your customer - that he is the only person allowed to ride on your property for insurance/liability reasons.
And that she is not covered by his release & also not covered by signing one of her own < in case that is suggested.