Oops! Mark Todd cruelty

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I read the H&H article. I don’t think this spectator was being dishonest, but just reporting what he saw, as he saw it. It does sound like the rider didn’t communicate well how she felt afterward, and with all the spectators cheering around, I can better see how this created an atmosphere of “okay-ness.” Even this guy who is trying to support Todd admits it was difficult to watch.

This does kind of align with the screenshots of her saying that the horse will jump but not step into water, and that the horse has “taught” his rider to expect this (hence her kind of freezing because of the difficulty of unlearning the riding muscle memory to expect a stop). But again, why this was the tool deliberately selected out of Todd’s toolbox to use to school both horse and rider that stopping wasn’t an option, bit of a yikes, and also why not try to teach the rider as well as the horse to approach this better and enlarge the skills she has to cope.

[enjoytheride]

So we have condemned an entire generation of riders and trainers based on age? And have declared his entire career as over? Persona Non Grata even! Based on one two minute video for which he has apologized and stated that he regretted his decision? And that anyone who dares use him will get hate mail and face boycotts? I thought we weren’t cancel culture?

[2bayboys]

It seems to me that the only person who behaved exactly appropriately in the aftermath of this is Mark Todd himself. He apologized, took full responsibility for his actions, made no excuses, and then shut up and accepted his suspension from racing and ouster from the horse welfare organization.

The people defending him are not doing him or the sport any favors. Saying “it was only a twig”, implying that people who watched the video “don’t understand” what they’re seeing, and remarking that “who among us hasn’t done something similar”, none of those are helpful in the big picture.

At least Todd has the good sense and grace to admit his wrongdoing and then BE QUIET. If we truly respect the man, then we believe him when he says what he did was wrong.

[FitzE]

This is a great point. All the people defending him and/or crying ‘cancel culture’ on his behalf (i.e., he is not saying this, others, predictably, are falling all over themselves to shriek it as though he would thank them for this when he, himself, has the strength of character not to appeal to that nonsense) are doing him no favours.

I think there is a whole cohort of people who will glom onto literally any situation that gives them an opportunity to bray on about ‘cancelling’ and ‘cancel culture’. It’s their go-to thing in search of an excuse to say it. Use of that phrase and its big brother ‘PC’ are so revealing.

I am both horrified by the video and able to appreciate his response so far as @2bayboys summarised: apologise, no excuses, accept consequences, don’t make things worse. I hope it is a turning point for him and I could see him making it a teachable (for himself) moment and coming to a better place because of it.

@2bayboys

If we truly respect the man, then we believe him when he says what he did was wrong.

So well stated. Why are people leaping to tell everyone it was fine when your man himself has been clear that it was not?

[Knights_Mom]

Yes.

Not my decision mind you but the way things are now.

Just like when a movie star beats their significant other.

Just like when someone famous is accused of rape.

That’s just the way things are now, like it or not.

[fordtraktor]

But Knight’sMom’s response is exactly cancel culture. It is hard to deny cancel culture exists, it is right there two posts above you.

[FitzE]

And even further above is the one in which I note that ‘cancel culture’ most of the time is just people who have never been held accountable for their behaviour suddenly being held accountable, even a little bit. They simply cannot deal b/c it’s a new and unpleasant sensation to have the same consequences as the rest of us. That’s why that phrase is so pathetic to me.

I don’t think that is what’s going to happen with MT. I think he’s going to be able to turn this around b/c he is not wrapping himself in the “I’m a victim of cancel culture!!” nonsense that others do. He’s responded well and sensibly. He’s very well-liked and successful. I think he’s going to be fine. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns this around and uses it to become even better.

I don’t say this as a fan (I’m not). I say this b/c I think he’s smart and savvy AND, most importantly, I get a sense that he’s being sincere when he says he’s just as horrified as others are and he knows it was wrong and he does NOT defend it. I think he’ll not do anything like it again and that’s progress.

[enjoytheride]

I see a lot of people saying that they are glad their less than thoughtful moments weren’t caught on video and posted on a bulletin board.

Despite his sincerity in his apology posters like those above you are equating it with rape and saying that his life is essentially over. Even calling for boycotts and hate mail for anyone who dares host him.

Another poster goes a step further and declares any older trainer or rider as being done with.

[FitzE]

I respectfully disagree. I think the first poster you note was describing one potential outcome.

The second poster did not say all older trainers/riders are “done with”. I disagree with the ‘boomer’ thing as much as I do the ‘cancel’ nonsense, so I’ll state that up front. Both are lazy comebacks that add nothing and make things worse.

I also think some of the oldest folks still in the industry are, in fact, the least likely to resort to crazy behaviour like this. So, I disagree with that. But, I also don’t think her post was saying what you are saying it does.

I interpreted her post to say: IF you are saying this was fine b/c that’s how it’s been done for years and years and everyone does it and gee, golly, if this upsets you, you must have lived in a bubble to not have seen MUCH worse b/c worse than this is the norm - IF that’s your stance, then times are passing you by and thank goodness b/c no one wants this to be the norm going forward.

That is a very different sentiment from “all people over a certain age are irrelevant”. In fact, I believe that poster would as or more horrified to see this behaviour from a younger trainer.

[Jealoushe]

Not sure if y’all are talking about my post and saying I’m saying boomer is about old people…

Tip for you: Boomer is a mindset, not an age. Nothing to do with age as you can see many very old riders have embraced proper training methods using horse biology and psychology. Boomer shouldn’t trigger anyone who isn’t one.

If the glove fits If it doesn’t, it shouldn’t bother you.

[Sticky_Situation]

It’s true that I haven’t specifically heard anyone say/post the exact words “Mark Todd needs to be cancelled.”

But I’ve seen a lot of posts, both the majority of comments on this thread as well as many on Facebook and elsewhere, saying things like “this video shows us who he really is” “he shouldn’t be training horses but unfortunately those that don’t care about horse welfare will continue to use him so he’ll he fine” “if he does this in public I’m sure he treats horses even worse at home!” And so on …

But as much as I feel he definitely crossed the line in the video from being assertive and applying pressure to get a response, to being unnecessarily rough and causing pain, I have yet to see any evidence this is his usual approach or a pattern of behavior. Why would a single 20-second video define “who he really is” when there are plenty of other videos out there of him treating horses well, and so far there don’t seem to be reports indicating that being rough with horses is a pattern? That’s exactly what “cancel culture” (much as I dislike that term) is … defining someone by a single bad moment and using that to make them persona non grata.

Some sort of sanctions or yellow card-type consequences are IMO appropriate, but I don’t feel that his career should be defined by this moment when it so far seems to be an isolated incident.

[Djones]

@Jealoushe

Not sure if y’all are talking about my post and saying I’m saying boomer is about old people…

Tip for you: Boomer is a mindset, not an age. Nothing to do with age as you can see many very old riders have embraced proper training methods using horse biology and psychology. Boomer shouldn’t trigger anyone who isn’t one.

If the glove fits If it doesn’t, it shouldn’t bother you.

No one is triggered by your insults. Let’s be clear on that point, full stop. Insulting others is not a viable strategy for encouraging others to respectfully listen to your point of view. It’s easy and it’s cheap, but it also cheapens your contributions.

[Mardi1]

Anyone here watch the movie Tombstone ?. This scene is for Mr. Todd.

"Hurts, Don't It?" Kurt Russell playing Wyatt Earp in Tombstone

[anon68314200]

That’s some shi++y animal training. Push animal until it quits then whallop it.

[Gardenhorse]

@2bayboys

It seems to me that the only person who behaved exactly appropriately in the aftermath of this is Mark Todd himself. He apologized, took full responsibility for his actions, made no excuses, and then shut up and accepted his suspension from racing and ouster from the horse welfare organization.

The people defending him are not doing him or the sport any favors. Saying “it was only a twig”, implying that people who watched the video “don’t understand” what they’re seeing, and remarking that “who among us hasn’t done something similar”, none of those are helpful in the big picture.

At least Todd has the good sense and grace to admit his wrongdoing and then BE QUIET. If we truly respect the man, then we believe him when he says what he did was wrong.

I agree. People’s reactions to this incident have revealed so much about them. I was really impressed with Matt Brown’s article that was posted above. Do people know of other professionals who have spoken about the issue in a similarly constructive/forward looking way?

[fordtraktor]

Ugh, as a person who has seen that author be less than gentle on a live feed, the article made me gag. Glass houses…

[Gardenhorse]

@fordtraktor

Ugh, as a person who has seen that author be less than gentle on a live feed, the article made me gag. Glass houses…

Well, that’s disappointing to hear.

[gardenie]

Recently? It seemed to me he was saying he was on the bandwagon for doing better.

[Jealoushe]

Deleted and can’t Unreply for some reason

[kt-rose]

Yeah, that was ugly. No, I wouldn’t allow that to happen to one of my horses now that I’ve had a lifetime to learn to recognize the moment a situation crosses the line. But it’s a bit hypocritical for a bunch of us amateurs to ride in such a way that we teach a horse to say a big NO as that horse had clearly learned – and so many do, we really can’t help it sometimes – and then ask a pro to fix it and when they have to get really tough and a bit ugly to do so because we’ve let it go on a while, we nail them.

Horses that have a big NO end up in places where the abuse is a lot worse than that. Horses that do their jobs well have good lives for the most part, horses that are not taught to do their jobs well (which is our responsibility!!!) are far more at risk. And horses that don’t go forward cross country are a danger to their riders and to themselves.

Also, horses have a sense of fairness. A horse that knows better but just says NO usually has a far different reaction to a severe correction than one that is scared and hasn’t a clue. Pretty sure that if Mark Todd had had that horse in training from the beginning it would not have a NO like that and would never have needed such an unfortunately strong correction.