What do you all think?
2 Likes
To George Williams point about the scoring:
How many times have we heard from clinicians/trainers that the movement we are doing is “good”, how many times have we seen from video and heard from other esteemed professionals (including judges) that a movement we are doing is good only to have that movement then be scored a 6-6.5 in that same test.
Now I know MANY technical aspects are required for many movements (suppleness, scope, relaxation during the movement), accuracy but even with the best of training the concept of what a “10” movement would be is not met in the ring (except for the occasional super horse/rider combination, mainly in the passage/piaffe movements).
So just what are the standards of a “10”, “9”, “8” (which is Good) that have been set forth by the judging panels that are not being met by the regular horses/trainers? When in many cases, the movements ARE “good”? Is this part of the “holy grail” that riders/trainers are trying to achieve by any method possible?
At the national/international levels, the horseflesh itself certainly is better than what was being presented in the ring 50 years ago. The riders we have now certainly have the advantages of training that many 50-100 years ago didn’t have. And yet watching many of (especially in the US) of the top riders, they are NOT scoring in the 70’s (fairly good range). Has the judging criteria changed to expect more from the horses now that the breeding and natural movement has gotten so much better? Or has the training really not progressed as much as we would hope?
Or are the criteria being asked too much to expect for even the top horses to get a “good (8)” score?
3 Likes
I don’t know JJ Tate but I liked what she had to say. It’s not about winning, not if you love the horse, it’s about training the rider, it’s about the rider learning how to help the horse be the best it can be.
2 Likes
I thought all three of them had great points.
Sabine Schut-Kery’s point is valid about the lack of certification of instructors in the US. But is that really relevant to the top of the sport or mostly amateurs?
4 Likes
Agree all three of them had great points….but IMO the top riders are really responsible for the bad image of the sport in Dressage in the moment…. Not sure whether better trainer or whatever would help…. J vBW just added to the bad image. She pushed a horse she bought from Helgstrand through a test in a show although it was clearly uncomfortable and then she made the videos of her ride disappear…. And now she declared that she gave up on the horse and let one of her riders show the horse (results were not really any better). Not sure how this should be handled, but blue tongues, and rides like this should not be presented by the “Top” riders…. And I did watch the video, it was pretty horrible… She forced the horse with a concrete like riders position and strong rein aids through this test…. It was a little bit like raping the horse……
6 Likes
I think they all had good points but it was all ethereal. Not something that can be concretely accomplished.
If you put something like that into a goal system at your workplace, it would/should be denied. It’s not measurable, or specific.
9 Likes
Yes, agreed. Feels like a feel good piece more than anything, which I suppose is exactly what it is. I do like the conversation though but it’s geared towards the wrong audience, imo.
1 Like
Everyone at the top of the sport has to start somewhere. Who trains them, and how? We need well educated riders at all levels, and qualified instructors to get them there.
With our current “system” absolutely anyone can call themselves a trainer regardless of how much they actually know. A very wise horsewoman once explained to me that cruelty often comes from desperation. When someone doesn’t understand how to accomplish something with a horse in a kind and fair way, it’s a lot easier to take shortcuts and/or use gadgets. Education is needed at all levels, not just the top.
4 Likes
Oh I agree 100 percent but what I meant was are the problems we do see at the top of the sport because of lack of education? Or just greed. Or just disregard for the horse?
I guess I have a hard time thinking these top trainers are whipping the hell out of their horses because “they don’t know any better.”
But regardless the more education for all, the better. Absolutely!
I just wish we could train empathy.
2 Likes
