That is some awesome control. When they were on the long wall did he also have the horse do a small ‘box’ in piaffe? The only times I’ve had a horse piaffing backwards is when they were afraid of something on the trail and wouldn’t go forward 
“Leg flinging” is not in the FEI judging manual. The manual says
Piaffe is a highly collected, elevated, rhythmical diagonal movement giving the impression of remaining in place. The Horse’s back and top line are supple and elastic. The hindquarters are lowered; the haunches with active hocks are well engaged, giving great freedom, lightness and mobility to the shoulders and forehand. Each diagonal pair of legs is raised and returned to the ground alternately, with spring and regularity
Please let me know where (time stamp) it is moving backwards that is not when asked by the rider. I don’t see it. I see a horse willingly moving in collection both forwards and backwards.
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45 seconds you can see the rider wants the horse in place and he starts creeping backwards and then jerks forward. Happens twice.
I’m sure you just “won’t see it” because you’re seeing what you want to see.
Question - what’s your goal here? How does this video of a horse taught a party trick that I’m sure any FEI GP horse could learn if the rider completely abandoned the idea of it being a forward thinking movement further the current judging criteria? What are you getting at?
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I find this statement interesting as I consider Marjorie Haines leg to be exemplary soft and not using the spur at all.
Maybe I need to clean off my glasses…but I just don’t see her “spurring” the horse…at all.
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Many people do not consider high school dressage a “party trick” but an art. And not every dressage trainer is training for competition.
This trainer is one of the most respected in the Lusitano world, and currently has the #1 PSG horse and top GP horse in the competitive world, too.
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So, any opinion that differs from yours is an insult. OK
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Take a look at the angle of her foot. The toe appears to be pointing out so I’m inferring that her spur is in contact with the horse’s side. Again given it’s a still photo, who knows.
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I am having a discussion…
I don’t see any conflict between this “party trick” and a competition movement. I also see this demonstration of the ultimate “forward thinking” horse as it complies with the rider’s requests to a transition from backwards to forwards to passage.
As far as furthering the judging criteria…perhaps it has to do with the philosophy of dressage. I am fully confident that this horse could do a successful GP test…I think I recall George Gabriel has competed at FEI
Competition competition is not in conflict with dressage as an artistic demonstration of a horse’s beauty, athletic abilities and partnership with its rider.
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Being asked by the rider is not a modifier in the directives. Backwards movement is a fault with respect to judging. Cool party trick - different question.
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I don’t see what you’re seeing at the 45 sec mark. My uneducated eye saw a horse asked to go back, then to pause, then forward. No creeping back with a jerk forward, but I dunno 
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I don’t understand how taking a movement that is supposed to be the penultimate in collection- movement in place- and sending it backwards is a pinnacle of training.
I especially dont understand why it’s being flaunted here, as this thread is about upper level competitive dressage, where this is highly penalized.
And again - I don’t like asking horses to do extreme things like this, just for the sake of doing it. How is this furthering his training? Or are we just wrecking his hocks for funsies?
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I see what you’re saying but if you’ve ever been in the hunter world you’d know that a rider can have a soft leg, wear a spur, and toe out without “spurring” the horse.
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Ahhh…and this goes to a discussion with a rider from the Royal School at Jerez how was in the US for 2 years. His point in our philosophical ruminations was that in the US, American riders only thought of dressage in terms of competition.
I feel that the elegance that this horse showed in this exhibition is orders of magnitude superior to what one sees in competition dressage. By that I mean this horse/rider pair demonstrate a level of subtlety, proficiency and difficulty higher than what is required in competition.
I feel this horse could enter a GP competition and place well against any rider including current Olympic riders.
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It is definitely a fault in FEI competition. Since the question in this thread asked how folks would judge a piaffe, it’s not unreasonable to assume the context for the discussion is competition.
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I ASSumed that people could see beyond the “backwards” stuff and evaluate the “standard piaffe” as shown for part of a discussion. I used this video as I consider the “forward piaffe” one of the best demonstrations of piaffe out in youtube.
I was not intending the “backwards piaffe” to be evaluated vs the FEI rules. I may be thick, but even I know that backwards in competition piaffe is a fault.
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As someone who saw the Royal school in Jerez, color me unimpressed with the horse management. Those horses never see any turnout, unless they have drastically changed in the 7 years since I’ve been.
That’s not to speak of their riding… but when horses see ZERO turnout when on the property, seems pretty unfair to me. I wouldn’t permit a horse I own to be kept that way.
@pluvinel what is the age of the horse in the video?
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I guess you have led a sheltered life. Any of the horses in the European countries have little to no turnout. You can put other historical Royal Schools with hundreds of years of traditions, including the Spanish Riding School, and the Portuguese Alter Real in your condemnation.
If you have ever been around “grey horses”…you know that they are born black, get dappled then turn white in their later years. I don’t know the age of this specific horse, but having been around greys, they seem to change to white in their late teens. This horse is still dappled, so my bet is this horse is in his youth.
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Ok…this is the case of the people see something from their perspective of experience.
When you are seeing a movement as “creeping backwards and then jerks forward,” I see a horse doing the movement (in competition) that used to be called “the rocker”…where a horse went forward, backward, then forward again without stopping. I don’t believe it is done any more.
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I didn’t post the video so I’m not sure what the goal was. I’m just defending an excellent trainer who’s being attacked here for no good reason.
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