Oh yes! I haven’t seen one in real life either, but lots of pictures. This is a newborn. I can find some progression pictures of another one.
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I put this subject on the Racing forum in case of any objections about derailing this thread.
I’d like to see the photos.
Just found this sample. A TB cross filly. Gray does things at its own rate, so all of them gray at their own rate.
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Very interesting! Thanks. 
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My jumper was a palomino gray. His name was Chocolate because he was a very dark palomino which was probably the first cue that was going to be gray like his dam. When I bought him he was the color of yellow snow but quickly went white. His base color must have been bay but his mane and tail were brown as were his stockings and dapples.
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If his base colour was bay, there is no way he was ever palomino. A palomino is a red base (chestnut/sorrel) with a cream gene. A bay with a cream would be buckskin. I’d be interested in seeing pictures.
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I thought palominos had blond manes and buckskins had black manes. Color me confused 
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Normally, though palominos can have what is referred to as “self coloured” manes and tails, meaning their manes and tails are the same colour as their bodies. Of course there are extremely dark palominos that could be easily mistaken as liver chestnut or possibly black. Usually found in Morgans. Sooty palominos can have a lot of dark hairs in their manes and tails, making them look black, though they are just very dark red hairs. Sooty however is normally progressive and darkens over time. Dark palominos are normally born dark.
Sorry, I’m running out of steam, hope this makes sense.
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The sport is really being tarnished by abuse at the top, but the top is not the only place where abuse is present.
I think that if showing is the public place that we have to clean up, I think the show system needs a total overhaul. I would like to return to compulsory figures and emphasizing the technical over the gaits. Technically, I’d like to see horses downscored for front leg movement that is not aligned with hind leg movement; hind legs that are not engaged; halts without immobility should get a very low score; behind the vertical should get a low score and I actually want to see the riders have to stretch the horse during a test in both trot and canter; etc. This would also require a complete re-education of the judges. Also, there should be rules around the judges regarding conflicts of interests, not accepting gifts from competitors/owners/breeders, and observation of the judges on a periodic basis by an independent panel. Officials need to be educated on signs of stress and be bold enough to sanction it. Part of the problem is the current system encourages not only getting every last drop out of a horse, but also more than they are capable of despite signs of distress.
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OMG, yes… the abuse takes place because it is REWARDED. Same as every other discipline.
Reward what is fundamentally natural across a wide cross section of sport horses. Stop rewarding what can only be achieved with breeding that is so selective it degrades the function of the horse, or with abusive training.
This isn’t rocket science. And it applies to far more then dressage.
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Well the breeder termed him a palomino. By the time I saw him he was 4 years old and the color of yellow snow. I’m no color expert because I really don’t care what color a horse is (the antithesis of whatI term the Krazy Kolor Breeders ) but the dark legs and mane and tail made me think bay not chestnut. It was a long time ago and I am not sure I still have the oucture in all of his yellow glory.
My goodness @pluvinel, what on earth did you do to incur the wrath or COTH? The article asked about dressage in general, Sabine and JJ talk about education and horsemanship regardless of competition. This discussion is not limited to competition. Some of you are piling on just to pile on.
If you ask me, I think what needs to change is the culture of criticism surrounding dressage. I’ve experienced no other discipline that gets routinely torn apart the same way dressage is. Perfection is the expectation and then people wonder why these horses are drilled and pushed to such extremes. It is common place for people to scrutinize every negative aspect of a horse and rider, most often coming from riders who could not produce the same movement themselves, let alone better. I think dressage needs a dose of humility and we need to stop demanding absolute perfection from both riders and horses. Perfection does not exist and it is utterly unfair to the horses.
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I’m not a Patrik Kittel fan but his test in Stockholm this weekend was actually quite nice to watch so it would appear some people are actually listening and changing the way they ride. Eurodressage mentions it here: https://eurodressage.com/2024/12/04/dufour-wins-2024-cdi-stockholm-top-10-ahum-top-6
Beats me. I agree with you about the hyper-critical culture in dressage.
Riding should be fun. Which is why I posted an exhibition of an exemplary rider doing piaffe…he just did it in an unorthodox manner and showed the movement backwards in addition to the conventional forwards…and the floodgates opened. Then a comment about estimating a grey horse’s age based on degree of greying led to a rabbit hole of color genetics.
Hey, its COTH. Enter at your own risk.
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I loved that video. I’m new-ish to dressage, though have been studying (reading books) for years. I had some inkling of the “high school” movements but didn’t really understand what that meant. That video put it all in to perspective for me. Not at all about competitive dressage, but the degree to which the rider can control even the most collected movements with a willing horse.
It also gave me greater insight into forward. Just one more piece of the puzzle for me.
I also really appreciate educated discourse of any kind. I was really born to be a philosopher :D. Alas, I am far from it!
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Joining the color diversion…
I think the palomino pictured also had the “sooty” gene. They tend to darken over the years and have those legs darkening early. He apparently also had a greying gene.
I have a sooty palomino. His color was stable for many years but has recently started darkening in places. My googling showed that alfalfa can contribute to darkening, so no more for him!
BTW they can do a genetic test for greying, but not for sooty.
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Thank you. Your observations are what I was hoping to illustrate. I also have walked a similar path as you describe. I saw a rider like the J Gabriel video and said to myself, “I want to ride like that.” And that, started my journey into being a philosopher of riding…and self-reflection.
I sold my Hanoverian and bought a very sensitive 4-yr old APSL Lusitano stallion with a very dry sense of humor who regularly bucked me off…until he taught me how to ride and forced me to figure out how to be a sensitive rider…or die.
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I agree with you about not expecting perfection, but we need to be able to have conversations about pros/cons/strengths/weaknesses and details that matter without it turning into unproductive fights or appeals to authority that shut down discourse.
E.g. I could care less about the backwards movement in the Gabriel piaffe since it is intentional, but I am seeing much more tension in that horse than others apparently are. Of course I may be wrong but I have more than a little experience with Iberian breeds and know where/why they hold tension when they do.
The actual piaffe to my eye is much more like the Totilas vid than Reiner Klimke because of the tension. I don’t think the extreme sitting he shows in the reinback piaffe is good for setting up his best quality “regular” piaffe, so without that, it might look softer?
I feel pretty strongly that one of the places we have gone wrong with “brilliance” is our willingness to accept tension - imho this is why we see so many rhythm and gait irregularities in top sport, which has to be addressed by the judging before any of this gets better.
I am a huge Klimke fan and the quality of the piaffe shown there is good or very good (disclaimer : just a layperson, no judges training) but needs more sit to be “excellent”. I love this one as a learning example because you can see clearly that if he were asking for more sit he would probably sacrifice rhythm and relaxation, but overall the way the horse is using his body is correct.
Looking forward to everyone else’s input.
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It’s a sweet spot that we have to find. We should not expect perfection and condemn anything less, but the sport (and it’s participants) also shouldn’t be free from criticism. Constructive criticism isn’t bad, especially when standards are realistic and achievable.
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THIS
I’m not a dressage connoisseur. I do basic work with my horses and creep on these discussions of UL movements because it’s fascinating. However, I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve watched a higher level test (streaming or YouTube) and thought “man I didn’t know a basic walk/trot/canter was supposed to look that weird”. Big flashy gaits getting all lateral and odd looking is not my cup of tea.
It has to come from the judging, ultimately. But the judging won’t change without pressure from knowledgeable, active competitors I think.
As for why dressage gets “attacked” all the time - if (g)you’re going to hold (g)yourself up as the gold standard of riding “properly”, you’ve got to walk the walk. When it comes to light that the ULs (especially) of Dressage are rife with abusive or inhumane riding and tense, anxious horses, well… people love to point it out. Glass houses and all that. Not to mention that it is often dressage riders from which I get the most flack about loving the hunters, or see snark posted on SM. Only PETA types and poorly educated R+ “consent” trainers have dressage beat as far as general antagonism in my personal experience. That invites antagonism right back.
(Before anyone lights me on fire: I am NOT saying all dressage riders are stuck up snobs who abuse their horses. Please read for comprehension and from a place of good intent. I evented, and have had some WONDERFUL dressage coaches. I’m speaking generally here.)
If riders, trainers, and owners start actually putting the horse first, I think it would make dressage as a competitive discipline beautiful.
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