Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[DownYonder]

Got it, thanks. FWIW, I owned a Han-Arab for years - she was a lovely and fun mare. I even bred her a few times to warmblood stallions - and kept one of her daughters her entire life - so I understand about the quality of Arabian sport horses. My comment was not intended to be snarky about Arabian sport horses but rather to point out the fact that most Arabians and most DHH have rather level croups and have a tendency to move out behind themselves, so people familiar with Arabians are not going to be put off by seeing a DHH/Arabian cross with that same type of conformation and movement.

And to clarify - While a DHH/Arabian cross may makes sense for folks who want to show in Arabian part-bred classes or Arabian Sport Horse classes, I do not think that it - in general - makes sense for people who want to be seriously competitive in USDF, USHJA, or USEA competitions. (Sorry if I am not expressing myself very well - I didn’t get much sleep last night - sick dog.)

[DownYonder]

Super post, VHM! It pretty much describes the situation - this breeder is a hoarder/puppy mill. And sadly, her mares and foals will pay the price. I hope and pray she comes to her senses before a serious tragedy occurs.

[2DogsFarm]

Not DHH, but KS’ story put me in mind of Edith Kosterka.
“Eccentric” best described her.
She had a Trakhener stallion shortlisted for the Olympics: Troubador
I had the privilege of seeing him ridden in a demo by Christine Stuckelberger waaaaaay back in the late 80s.
Edith went on to form a mare band & bred them to Troubador, ending up with a mostly-feral herd of mares & youngstock.
When she died, they went at auction.
Sidenote:
She’d wanted to be buried on her property - St Charles, IL, IIRC.
Neighbors’ pearls were clutched, but she got her wish.
I wonder how that was handled when the property changed hands
Undoubtedly a subdivision by now.

ETA:
Corrected to Wayne, IL
& A $1.5mil bequest went to IL vet college
AND:
Her herd was far from backyard junk, just mostly unhandled pets

[Paint_Party]

I remember Troubador! He was a gorgeous horse. Our mom was really into Trakehners so that’s what we mostly bred, so I’m familiar with his story.

[CuriosoJorge]

The “puppy mill” hoarding aspect of this trainwreck is what has concerned many of us all along.

This is a different verse to the same song as Anne Goland Shumate, Jill Burnell, etc. etc. etc.

[Simkie]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

So what is going on here? Kate is a full time braider. Apparently good at it. But she’s not a Venture Capitalist or independently wealthy multimillionaire with a lot of disposable income to spend and lose on a hobby breeding program. At least not to my knowledge.

I’ve always assumed that there was family money here. Perhaps inherited from her mother? Clearly her braiding gig doesn’t support this lifestyle, though…

[trubandloki]

@Simkie

Clearly her braiding gig doesn’t support this lifestyle, though…

Her braiding gig is a business with lots of people all over working under her, so she is not just a person getting paid to braid (with that undisclosed fee for leaving it in), she is making money off lots of people braiding. She claims she makes more money braiding than she would as a lawyer.

Though, her long post on her page acts like she can barely get by, so heck, it is hard to know which version of her life we are supposed to believe.

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

@Simkie

Clearly her braiding gig doesn’t support this lifestyle, though…

Her braiding gig is a business with lots of people all over working under her, so she is not just a person getting paid to braid (with that undisclosed fee for leaving it in), she is making money off lots of people braiding. She claims she makes more money braiding than she would as a lawyer.

Though, her long post on her page acts like she can barely get by, so heck, it is hard to know which version of her life we are supposed to believe.

I am sure Kate makes more money braiding than she would as a lawyer, especially since she never passed any bar exam in any state.

Doesn’t mean she makes more actual net take home pay braiding than the median income for a competent employed lawyer.

When the last round of starving mares and young stock hit social media in Summer 2023, Kate said publicly that she was giving up, liquidating her breeding program, going to auction off the young ones. Then she just shipped them all out of Florida (where they were under scrutiny and perhaps had worn out their welcome) back to Arizona (her home state and where she may still have more contacts).

[Annie10]

@Simkie

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

So what is going on here? Kate is a full time braider. Apparently good at it. But she’s not a Venture Capitalist or independently wealthy multimillionaire with a lot of disposable income to spend and lose on a hobby breeding program. At least not to my knowledge.

I’ve always assumed that there was family money here. Perhaps inherited from her mother? Clearly her braiding gig doesn’t support this lifestyle, though…

No there is no family money.

[fivestrideline]

I was under the impression there may have been some inheritance or lawsuit money that kicked off the $$$$$ project of ISCI and recips and rare semen. But, that was just a hunch.

Just for reference, in general:
A local breeder is selling a few youngsters, VERY nice 1-2 year old full WBs with tons of full grown siblings out showing and winning with amateurs and pros alike. These aren’t the top “in vogue” bloodlines, but they’re good, established ones where the farm prefix is recognizable locally. The very typey youngsters are going for 20-30k, out of proven WB mares with their own show records.

So a person with $30k to spend looking for a hunter or equitation horse could have Kate’s DHH cross or something like the ones local to me. For the same price.

[Annie10]

She did sue her father at one point but there’s no money

[DVO]

I guess I’ve wondered about this, though. Would anyone actually work for her, or is this storyline also false? It’s hard for me to imagine her being a tolerable employer, and she drops clients, and they drop her, frequently. Finally, nobody defends her, sooooo…? I dunno. Even if she has a huge staff, the math doesn’t work out, so I too assume family money somewhere.

[trubandloki]

I would say yes, because it is hard to get into braiding unless you already work for a barn that needs braiding.

For reasons I do not understand, people hire KS to braid, and she hires people to do the braiding.

Assuming, because of how she deals with everything else in life, if a braider tries to go out on their own after working for her, they are threatened with a lawsuit.

[SLR]

She did not ship them all to Arizona

[vxf111]

Credit where credit is due, her braids are really nice. A friend of mine uses her at away shows. And she seems to have a lot of control over the market in certain areas such that you go with her network or you could find yourself scrambling for a braider. I don’t think her braids are nice enough to put up with being treated rudely or having to tiptoe around for fear of being publicly dragged through the mud-- but that one youngster at the inspection aside, her braids are nice.

[SusanO]

I guess if you are a large barn you are going to deal with the big contractor, versus some subcontractors that have broken away from the main contractor. If the new subcontractors charge less - you don’t care because you are going to pass on the braiding charge to the owners. You just want a guarantee that you will get a good job and the work will be done on time. There is more risk dealing with someone new. So I can see why it would be hard to break away if you are a subcontractor braider.

[Aussie_2020]

I wondered because wasn’t the inspection in FL? Do you know if it was just the mares that went back to AZ or did some young stock go as well?

[Scribbler]

@SLR

She did not ship them all to Arizona

Oh ok my error. I guess I haven’t been stalking her hard enough

[Kasheare]

You all can’t help yourselves. BWP is a great organization and I already submitted pedigrees. Also this was the original email from Drew essentially calling me a liar therefore yes defensive. I had to provide score card (that sat in my truck in the Gainesville airport parking lot that I sent someone to go retrieve) and finally got a oh yah we made a mistake whoops.

[Kasheare]

I only own 5 mares, 1 keeper 2yo filly, 1 keeper yearling fillies, 2 keeper weanling fillies. For sale a 2yo filly, 1 yearling colt, 2 2024 colts. Everything else has sold. Thanks for this list though!