Got it. Thanks!
I have a feeling that poster was replying to the initial post of this thread before it got off on the KS tangentā¦
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OK. 
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Sire is Harmonie (thatās the DHH), dam is Odessa. Bred in Washington somewhere. I know nothing about either of them. Got the horse when he was 12.
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You are correct. I was responding to a post asking about whether to consider a DHH or DHH cross as a jumper prospect. Mine is a superstar.
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Your DHH cross wasnāt a āprospectā then, and recommending a DHH cross for jumpers is a big sweep. It matters very much the quality of the DHH and what it is crossed with.
How fun that your DHH jumper can be a good kids horse. Horses that can help teach kids and get them safely around are special.
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Mine was a not very good 1.10m jumper when I bought him. It took a while for him to understand the need to go forward instead of cantering in place. Once we fixed that, he moved right up to 1.20m. At $17,000, he was a bargain, and super sound.
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Thatās great. He sounds like a good egg.
I can see paying 17K for a good horse that is sound , broke, well started and jumping a bit under saddle.
The starving horses that you see in this thread are none of that.
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I love hearing about DHH crosses but really could care less about the drama about this Kate person. I certainly havent read all of it but from what I have read, I donāt really understand why so many people are obsessed with her. The condition of the horses Iāve seen look bad, honestly probably not bad enough for authorities to be involved as there is a lot worse out there, but I guess if someone wants to buy a $40k foal, have at it???
I bought a 3 year old DHH draft cross about 3 years ago. Iām not sure of his exact background and weāve had our trials and tribulations, mainly honestly due to me being an older DIY ammy who hadnāt started a young horse in a very along time and him being a giant doofus. lol. Iām finally getting him to stretch downward and relax his back somewhat at the trot but the canter is a huge project. I want to jump and event him someday and I do believe he has amazing potential but itās going to be up to me to bring it out!! I think if he were with a professional he could be kicking butt right now. Anyway, he is the most handsome thing and as sweet and snuggly and in your pocket as can be. He can be looky and spooky and the the giraffe neck and head can be a lot to deal with but I am really enjoying being with him and working with him. I think the breed is really cool and versatile and though certainly not for everyone, I definitely am a fan.
Some of the horses in the photos are indeed bad enough that our local SPCA would jump on them.
There are other nutritional issues with not getting any vitamins into pregnant mares or foals. And the whole thing about running a back yard neglectful breeding program with starved foals and asking $40k for a final.
And then blaming the entire world for what youāve done when things catch up with you.
The thread has changed tone since the evidence of Kateās abuse of horses came out. There are two DHH threads going, and in one there were folks having a useful and positive discussion with Mare about DHH for a while. Then the neglect evidence came in.
Its a bit long for me to recap, read the threads if you like a trainwreck. But also alot of useful information on conformation, bloodlines and repro tech.
Iām glad you like your big sweet DHH x draft. We were not on here to curse out DHH. We were however wondering about the ethics of marketing the crosses Kate developed as jumpers and dressage horses.
Obviously the market agrees with us because she didnāt sell many foals and is now trying to liquidate her herd
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As @scribbler said, no one here is bashing DHH. I commented (WAY) upthread about how we have one in the barn that is a favorite (in a barn full of GP & derby quality WBs). He wins the .90s from Canada to California and is an absolute blast who is a good egg and safe teacher. We love him and he knows it.
I really enjoyed reading comments from COTHers who are far more educated than myself on breeding. Selfishly because my horses bloodlines are discussed.
Iāll admit, Iām addicted to a good train wreck thread. Usually I just read them, but I did have some things to relate here. Getting attention here is what could get some authorities involved, maybe. Yes, Iāve unfortunately seen worse, but this is clear neglect and abuse and I think itās especially horrific when it involves mares and foals. Maybe something will come of this and put an end to KS irresponsible breeding.
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Several posters have been shocked that other types of riding exist outside of Dressage and HJ and have indeed bashed DHH, Saddlebreds, Arabians, and etc expressing surprise that people actually ride those breeds let alone show them. As well as a lot of misunderstanding about how the KWPN registry functions with a lot of ideas that itās a inferior registry because it is an open book.
One breeder with some questionable tactics and assorted drama does not represent multiple breeds, registries, or riding styles.
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Oh, I really didnāt take it as DHH trashing. I think the breed is pretty cool and while Iām not a breeder at all, and am of the general philosophy that there could be a whole lot less animals being bred and a whole lot better care being taken of the ones already here, I think there is a lot worse that you could be producingā¦.at least in my area, there are not a lot of these types of horses and they have good market value and are really nice animalsā¦tend to be sound, versatile, sturdy, athletic. If someone with deep pockets is in the market for a horse to get them to the upper echelons of dressage or jumping, I would think that they or their advisors would be able to assess how likely that venture would beā¦ā¦so I donāt really understand the pile on here from that standpoint. But of course, not taking proper care of your horses is a whole other matter. Absolutely horrible and no excuse for that.
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To be fair, I think it was really only one poster that was suggesting harness horses arenāt riding types. Iāve never even heard of this view point so I think itās quite limited.
The DHH does get a bad rep. I think part of it is because people do not have a lot of experience with DHHs personally, and the ones they do see may be poor quality and they allow that 1 or 2 poor quality specimen to represent the entire breed. Itās also unfair to expect a horse bred for and conformed for harness to be an upper level jumping prospect and then penalize the horse because they arenāt. I also think a lot of times when people do see a nice WB that may have Dutch harness lines that isnāt extremely conformed with a super flat croup (etc), then they donāt even realize they are looking at a horse that has or comes from some or a lot of Dutch harness breeding. A lot of people are totally unfamiliar with Gelders blood but I find it in the background of pedigrees all the time.
I think also at the end of the day, people are going to choose what they want to believe. Multiple people in these threads have corrected misinformation repeatedly yet some people continue to repeat misinformation. Oh, well. Thatās on them if they choose to be ignorant.
If Kate took excellent care of her horses, bred amateur friendly mounts that had bright futures (though may not be GP prospects), and had an ounce of humility or decency, Iād sing a very different tune in this thread. I did not come into this thread swinging. I was open to her program, asked many questions because I was open minded. However, in my opinion these horses do not look well cared for and it appears to me that there is a lack of accountability. Someone could breed the worldās most proven, most incredibly well bred specimens but if they donāt feed them or provide basic care like a hoof trim every once in a while, then they are cruel in their endeavors and should be put out of business.
I can only hope she keeps her word for once and actually gets out of breeding.
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Really? Show me one post where someone is genuinely surprised that these breeds and disciplines exist.
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Oh, most English sport riders are aware that saddle seat horses exist and many also find the riding and training for saddleseat to be on a continuum from perplexing to horrifying (stacked shoes, Big Lick Tennessee Walkers, etc).
What Kate was doing was within the KWPN registry guidelines. The harness direction and riding direction are both registered KWPN, and crosses can be registered under riding direction.
What seemed potentially misleading was that Kate was phrasing her sales ads to make it sound like her foals were full riding direction, playing on the fact some buyers might not know that the KWPN registry (like the QH registry in a different way) contains such widely disparate specialized types. Most of the other WB registries do not. Then obviously hoping that the Big Name frozen semen would get people so interested that theyād overlook the no-name dams. Like people would be interested in Big Name Semen x random failed OTTB mare. Thatās a very common low end or backyard cross!
However as the thread made clear, Kate turned out to also be a bsc nightmare constantly attacking all her contacts on FB.
And then the documented horse neglect/ abuse.
I see she still hasnāt posted photos of the 25 plus sales horses. And sheās marketing then on her FB page where everyone knows who she is and getting little traction. I expect the horses are in too rough shape to post photos or videos. Kate got flack on here for posting scary skinny sales pictures even before this latest crisis where she shipped a starving filly to an in utero purchaser who had no idea
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I havenāt seen thisāeven those who were questioning the suitability of these types for H/J werenāt really bashing, from what I recall. If anything, most people who questioned them confessed their ignorance and seemed glad to learn more about the various disciplines. I know itās fascinating to me!
I grew up when the TB was the top choice for hunters, and everything else was second or even third-best. WBs began inching their heavy way in (those first European rejects were elephants 
), as I was in my mid-teens, but my last junior horse was a purpose-bred TB who went the next year to Madison Square with his new owner, ending the year in the top five AO Hunters in the country. He was the ideal- big, classic, elegant, gorgeous trot, with a knees to eyeball, back-cracking jump.
We rode Saddlebreds, grade horses, Appys, Appendix (my first horse was one of these and was a super-cute Childrenās Hunter), and so on, but the horses who won were those daisy-cutter trotting, elegant-jumping TBs, and then over time this morphed into the ones who had the more WB way of going and looks. An Arabian who didnāt move or jump like a hunter (and that flagged its tail) was never going to win in top company at a rated hunter show, and this is still true. Even though the ideal of hunter has changed, it hasnāt changed so much that something with lots of knee action or a flat jump is going to win in good company. This isnāt bashing, itās the reality of that judging standard.
I actually came across KSās ads when I was looking for my young horse a year or so ago and did my own detective work out of sheer curiosity to try to figure out why these Dutch WBs looked like harness horses. I traced the bloodlines, learned about KWPN sections, and figured it out, and passed. I would have passed anyway because none of them looked suitable for UL jumpers, regardless of the breeding.
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A DHH cross is not a ābreedā.
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Really. Again, a DHH cross is not a breed.
I have a difficult time understanding anyone who has had any experience with horses, who thinks that foal is not ābad enoughā and that āthere is a lot worse out thereā.
Maybe where you are @saratoga, āthere is a lot worse out thereā but not where most people are. " A lot worse" than that foal looks, would look dead. Thereās not a lot of leeway.
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