Too much. Which is why she still has it.
11 Likes
LOLOL! We all know that! Just curious on the actual price that she wonât budge on. 
1 Like
Well, for the other one she wanted mid-5s. Iâm assuming itâs probably close to the same.
For that price, for her supposed ammy buyer and in the market she placed the ad, you could get one that was imported and is already under saddle and doing things with quite a bit of show record and training under itâs belt.
ETA: just saw the adâŠâŠshe wonât give a price because she has no problems keeping her.
ETA: just found her old adâŠshe wanted 
, in June. In my market you can still find something already started and doing things for that price range, especially for eventing.
10 Likes
oh lord. 
3 Likes
In dressage and jumping horses (sport horses), the hindleg needs to come forward under the center of gravity and provide lifting (carrying) power. This is especially important as horses move up the levels / heights and the work requires more lifting power. They are also expected to demonstrate more gaits than just trot (walk-trot-canter for dressage horses, gallop for jumping horses). And they are expected to have elasticity through the body and âswingâ in the topline, making them easier to sit.
OTOH, walk-canter-gallop are not particularly prized in harness horses, whose claim to fame is a fancy trot. Nor does a harness horse need to have lifting power in its trot - they are instead expected to stay âon the groundâ (so to speak) and drive straight forward with a lot of knee and hock action. The hindleg contributes a bit to push but not so much to lift other than to snap the leg up in an extreme fashion - and that isnât lifting the body and propelling it forward so much as it is just lifting the leg itself. A trailing hindleg makes that high action easier to perform and contributes to the snappiness of the gait. The level-flattish croup makes the biomechanical action of snapping the leg up quickly an easier feat as the horse isnât wasting motion or energy placing the leg very far forward under its body - nor are they expected to âsitâ like a dressage horse, or fold the hindquarters like a jumping horse, so they donât need a slope to the croup. And since they generally arenât ridden, they donât need to have a supple back so they tend to be quite rigid through the topline - although it doesnât flex, it does help stabilize the horse as it snaps its legs up.
Iâm not sure I am explaining this very well but that is my understanding from speaking with someone who did fine harness for years with ASBs and Hackneys and has been considering dabbling in DHH. We have occasional (sometimes lively!) discussions about the merits of fine harness vs sport horse disciplines! 
30 Likes
Completely agree with this.
1 Like
This is a great explainer on the differences in biomechanics. Thank you!
1 Like
Interesting, thanks.
Different purposes. And yes a horse with suspension and a bouncy collected trot makes the jog cart feel like itâs about to go airborne imo. Itâs so smooth sitting behind a nice harness horse/pony that pulls the cart properly.
They have to pull from the breastcollar, granted breed show carts are light, vs push from behind and leave slack on the traces.
14 Likes
Yes, good point about suspension! And also about pulling from the front end. Loading the forequarters lessens the demand on the hindquarters so it is easier for the hind end to get very snappy in an up-and-down motion.
Also, as @Virginia_Horse_Mom mentioned above, dressage horses are expected to move over their back and through their body. Not so for harness horses, though - they can go high-headed and pull from the breastcollar instead of driving from their hindleg over their back.
I donât know if these two photos help show the differences. The first one is the DHH stallion Dondersteen mentioned above. The second photo is of the GP dressage stallion Everdale.
To my mind, I would much rather drive Dondersteen than Everdale. But I would much rather ride Everdale than Dondersteen. So as @luvmyhackney said - different purposes.
(And I would also much rather jump Everdale than Dondersteen - Everdale has power in the hind end and he can fold his hindquarters!)
14 Likes
Wow, being scolded and told off already in the advert before you even express interest in the horse.
Hard pass.
29 Likes
It looks like Dondersteen has weighted shoes on. Especially in the front and maybe behind too. That would influence his action although he is already a high stepper. I would not have to ride Everdale - I just wish I was a good enough rider to ride him. That would be enough for me.
2 Likes
I was wondering about weighted shoes.
The number one thing that gives me the most pause about anything coming from Dondersteen turning into a decent riding horse is his back. It doesnât move at all as he goes trotting around on video. He doesnât look tense to me though - actually I think he looks like a really cool performance harness horse. But⊠he is not moving over his back. Thatâs not what is going on
@luvmyhackney made a comment that really made me think about sitting in a cart behind a harness horse like thisâŠ
I bet Dondersteen is VERY smooth at his intended job.
But to ride? I donât know about that. And jumping? Iâm not seeing it. That doesnât mean he canât⊠but⊠it doesnât look like it will be natural or conventional.
3 Likes
Iâd love to ride the top horse more than the dressage horse. That big trot is exhilarating and makes you giggle. Itâs completely different than a nice dressage horse feeling, but everyone should ride a nice saddlebred, hackney, DHH at least once before they knock the style. Different doesnât make it wrong.
15 Likes
When I was a teenager, I rode, as my regular lesson horse, a former international level combined driving horse. He was one of the lead horses in a 4 in hand- IIRC, a Hackney-Standardbred cross. I can personally attest to the big trot comment
1 Like
Ha, you might be right. These days I am so tight in the hips that I think it might be easier to ride that DHH. All that action is up and down and his back doesnât move so my old stiff pelvis wouldnât have to move either. 
And I am not sure folks are saying that kind of movement is wrong per se - it is absolutely right for a harness horse. But a horse like that would not be successful in the dressage ring - esp. at higher levels. And it would not be successful in the hunter, jumper, or eventing disciplines either - it seems to barely be able to canter, esp. when turning.
(Full disclosure - I cut my teeth riding a Saddlebred, so I know what you are saying about the trot being exhilarating.)
16 Likes
Exactly. Itâs not about knocking the style of the harness horse. Itâs just that the biomechanics are not desirable for a riding discipline.
I have only driven a 2 wheeled cart behind ponies many years ago⊠but in the interest of being evenhanded, I will say I would FAR prefer to try driving with a horse that moves like Dondersteen vs Everdale. And the idea of driving a horse bred for eventing⊠with a natural propensity for galloping and jumping ? 
That sounds a bit frightening to meâŠ.
3 Likes
Riding a Standardbred at a fast trot on a trail or in a pasture is incredibly fun but, itâs not so fun in a dressage arena.
9 Likes
There is nothing quite like it! Iâm fortunate to have ridden some truly amazing, well bred sport horses and yet one of my fondest riding memories comes from the day I took our STB and pointed him at a galloping tract and said âok, show me how fast you can goâ. Just â WOW. No wonder he won so many races and raced 212 times.
The only thing is - when a TB gets very fast, they get low and flat. When an STB gets very fast, itâs like being a quarter in a washing machine. 
14 Likes
