BUt in all fairness… the stud fee is the cheap part of breeding.
Doing ICSI and using recip mares? And paying other people to attend to the mares when foaling out? That’s how she is incurring the vast majority of her breeding expenses.
The whole thing makes no financial sense.
In at least one instance (Royce) the breeding came from the KWPN-NA stallion auction. I know this because I was the underbidder. My intended mare was an imported KWPN elite jumper mare with a substantial show record in Europe and the USA. She has since been the dam of a Devon and Sallie B. Wheeler winner who’s now showing under saddle.
And then there are Kate’s mares.
You need them for breed awards. Not much else, though.
I don’t agree that she is producing ammy friendly horses. Some of these stallions are known to be quite difficult. Pair that with the fact that the harness damlines will produce some difficult challenges due to conformational make up that will make riding more difficult. I’ve seen one, maybe two videos of her stock under saddle and they had a lot difficulty at the canter IMO.
I do get it, we have all had a horse with questionable conformation or breeding that has proven to be a wonderful lower level horse. I have one of them in my backyard. The major difference is I don’t breed said horse, let alone by the dozen. I also don’t starve them or neglect their feet.
At the end of the day, KS could be breeding unicorns. However, her care of these horses and her behavior are pretty abhorrent and I think people should support ethical (and sane) breeders.
They can also be a helpful marketing tool if you decide to sell the horse as brand names often carry weight with buyers. For instance, KWPN is quite popular with hunter/jumper people, so those papers can be a draw for potential buyers. Papers from a reputable registry also prove parentage - and proof of lineage can also be a good marketing tool as many buyers are apt to be more attracted to a horse with a provable pedigree of successful performance horses. And in many cases, they are willing to pay more for such, esp. in a young horse that doesn’t yet have a long performance history of its own.
What a waste of good semen. I am betting that a Royce foal out of your mare would have much more propensity for success as an H/J horse than a Royce foal out of a DHH mare.
In this instance, I would want papers to see what this specific horse was made of. Just to know the bloodlines. 30k warrants this IMO.
Now that would’ve been an intriguing and worthwhile cross.
This 100000%. I own a Baloubet mare (selle francais are French trotter x thoroughbred) and have had her for 7 years. I can attest that she pulls heavily with her chest and the hind end is hard to maintain and get underneath. And the other side of my mare? Cumano. The cart horse has been “bred out” for generations yet I’m still fighting it to jump.
Kate is breeding baloubet to DHH mares! Absolute insanity.
Just curious. What year did you have the Sallie B. Wheeler winner?
I got the breeding because the person who won couldn’t pay the miniscule fee so they offered it to the next bidder. Also if you wanted to breed to Royce that bad you could just pay his 3k stud fee and breed to him right? Why didn’t you? I have!
I am not saying papers have no benefit. I am saying in this instance papers have no benefit. I have two mares. I was interested in them first off because of their bloodlines and being registered was a major consideration. I didn’t want to buy a mare, particularly, if it was not worth being bred and no papers was a no go for me. But this is a gelding and I don’t think there are enough DHH’s competing in dressage (or high level jumpers) to be able to determine if his particular bloodlines were going to lend him to success as a dressage horse. Or as a jumper. N=1 doesn’t give you a lot of information as to future success. So as a gelding the best you can do is see him under saddle, look at his gaits and temperament and try to make an educated guess to figure out how far he can go. I don’t think knowing his bloodlines will give you a lot of information. Unless his parents have produced a bunch of dressage horses in that area. His bloodlines might give you information about how good (and flashy) a driving horse he might become though .
wow
You said that she bought your “stock”, but she did not buy a horse from you that you have bred. According to you, you sold her a DHH that you bought as a weanling.
I’d be very careful with implying that someone has bought a product of your breeding program when that is not true.
Horsetelex has 7 recorded Royce babies. Every single dam has a jumping record of 1.30+, a couple have impressive 1.55-1.60 FEI records. Now those babies are probably going to be something.
ETA link: https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/search?father=%20Royce&page=1
The Royce thing puzzles me, because last I looked at USEF there were only 3? (I’ve forgotten and too lazy to look right now) Royce babies and one of them Margie bred…
Do we know why he has so few babies? Why did you choose to breed to him? Truly curious.
Name dropping rights? Seems on par. But maybe we will here a well thought out answer that makes some sense.
That’s interesting.
Royce’s dam was closely linebred to Pilot. And his sire line is through Contender. I would expect all that to result in a very athletic jumper with great technique… but also perhaps not a very ammy friendly type.
Yeah, those two close crosses to Pilot say to me - professional’s horse.
Royce is known for having VERY good technique. Perhaps that’s because of the pre-potency of his dam’s contributions… given she was linebred 2x3 to Pilot.
But yes… that same line breeding would also very possibly result in a professional’s ride.
This is the sort of thing people who care about and think about dam lines look at closely when considering possible matches for a mare.
@Virginia_Horse_Mom and @DownYonder thank you for the thoughtful replies. I admittedly don’t know a lot about him, aside from watching him and Margie for years.
A stallion whose offspring I do ride/know about are Chacco Blue who are also notoriously not ammy friendly, and whom KS has chosen to breed DHH mares to. Along with Baloubet - notoriously difficult/quirky. A
Wonder why she hasn’t bred any to Casall or Conthargos who give us many of our top hunter & jumper ammy winners around the country. Not to give her any ideas.
This is just my limited view, of course, but I do ride many of these horses myself and/or have experience with handling them for pros.
The head-scratching continues.
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