Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Montanas_Girl]

@Aussie_2020

Do you know if a name and registry was created for those crosses?

Was that the Renai Horse Registry that Gene Lacroix was involved in starting?

[Paint_Party]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

it looks like the horse has a challenge opening up through the shoulder over jumps. Which is something many people questioned as a possibility when pondering using harness bred mares to produce jumpers.

Ideally the horse should be able to “roll” its shoulder so that the forearm is at least horizontal. Instead, we’re seeing a lot of these chosen and created horses compressing their front legs and jumping out over their shoulder. Sure, they’re clearing the rail, but certainly not in a classic, stylish manner. And certainly not like a hunter. Such horses often don’t make Big Eq horses, either, because it’s hard to maintain an equitation position when you’re being launched up and over the withers over an oxer, or you’re eating a mouthful of mane over a vertical because the horse is heaving itself over the jump using its neck. At least that’s been my experience.

KS, in her vast, hands-on experience showing hunters and eq medals might have formed a different opinion.

[fivestrideline]

Yep - big eq, derby, and GP/UL horses can’t be ping ponging in the air and be competitive.

There IS a market for big boned, amateur friendly, sturdy things that can jump a bit and dabble in dressage and bop down the trail. People like the chunky “warmblood” look that you can get with a draft cross or big DHH. People like flashy markings. But, these horses do not come at $40k as a baby, and don’t usually come with notoriously tough to ride sire-lines.

[Ghazzu]

@iberianfan

They did come up with a name but I can’t remember it. National Show Horses are Arab x saddlebred. I’ll try and find it later.

IIRC,it was “Renai”, as in “Renaissance”.

[iberianfan]

Yes!

[good_booie]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

She did make the claim about “Boardwalk KG” - the 18 yo mare who jumped over the edge of the truck and paddock fence that “She’s still got it!” I am unaware of this mare having a competition record as a jumper though… I assume that was just KS being deliberately vague and trying to get that old broodmare sold.

hmmm, so this is the old mare whose colt died. Wonder if she was pregnant when she jumped the truck?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@fivestrideline

But, these horses do not come at $40k as a baby, and don’t usually come with notoriously tough to ride sire-lines.

This.

I’m all about the value of a nice ammy friendly horse with a good brain. There is nothing wrong with that. But some of the stallions she has used produce pro rides for upper levels… not ammy friendly types. That’s problematic.

[albytb]

I think the mares she chooses could help in that aspect, but it’s hard to say. I think for most of her nicer babies between $10k-$20k is a more appropriate price tag. I think some of them are cute—although I am a sucker for Sabino coats that some of them get.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@albytb

I think the mares she chooses could help in that aspect, but it’s hard to say.

It is indeed hard to say, since the mares she uses have no performance careers, and many aren’t even broke to ride.

If you look at their pedigrees to see what their sires and dams did… you find more horses who weren’t broke to ride, only broke to drive. Which is great, but doesn’t give anyone a clear idea of whether or not these horses would be ammy friendly types under saddle.

The best bit of evidence at this point concerning whether or not these mares do actually produce ammy friendly types would be their other offspring. Many people following these threads have tried to look up the offspring in various databases and see if they have much in the way of show records… so far… no one has found much. Perhaps it’s because many of the horses she has bred are still young, and just now getting started under saddle and in a performance career. Who knows? It’s a question mark at this point.

Bottom line… there is no verifiable objective proof that the mares Kate is using in her program produce ammy friendly riding horses. It is simply a claim Kate has made.

[albytb]

That’s a fair assessment! I didn’t know they weren’t broke to ride. I guess time will tell, but if they’re going to ammys there’s a chance there won’t be an official show record at all.

[fivestrideline]

@albytb

I guess time will tell, but if they’re going to ammys there’s a chance there won’t be an official show record at all.

Well, she is (or was) marketing them as amateur friendly competition mounts so… a show record is a bit of a requirement for that assessment. Same for Big Eq, or derby, or GP mounts. Anything can be a “prospect”, but she’s making claims that need proof to have any weight.

Right now I think there’s a somewhat successful half-Arabian youngster (maybe more than one?), and a 1.0-1.10 jumper with a mediocre record under a pro? And that’s just what a poster or two gave dug up - KS doesn’t seem to have these older horses as part of her marketing scheme.

Maybe some of these horses will sell into homes that put records on them or at least post publicly on social. Until then, it’s all pretty shaky hopes and dreams in these ads. Most breeders asking hefty prices and making high level performance claims about their product tend to have more to back it up.

[roseymare]

The way we describe it to our judging kids is that those big up knee moving English and Harness horses have a " leg on each corner"

[roseymare]

So they were bred. Up and Down will be up and down!

[Rumorhasit93]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

The best bit of evidence at this point concerning whether or not these mares do actually produce ammy friendly types would be their other offspring. Many people following these threads have tried to look up the offspring in various databases and see if they have much in the way of show records… so far… no one has found much.

I posted upthread that I was able to find two that had gone to a couple of shows and done the low level jumpers with a pro and ammy. Yes, many of them are too young to have records. But the ones that do aren’t the “equitation superstars” or “upper level” anything Kate is promising that they’ll be. Wild.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Thanks for pinging back on the thread. I lost track of specific details people had shared and admittedly didn’t go scrolling before posting.

Her claims are all over the place. Each baby is advertised as being everything to everyone. Which is unrealistic and unfair to the horses. Add to it some talented but tough sires, and unknown as to what the mares will actually contribute… it’s a mess. I hope the foals and young horses make it to good homes where they can be successful partners for their riders… but there is a considerable amount of unknown risk involved with these particular horses. It’s concerning.

[Paint_Party]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Her claims are all over the place. Each baby is advertised as being everything to everyone.

This.

Also, I find it confusing to muddle through the descriptions. There’s the youngster’s registered name, its nickname, the dam’s registered name, her nickname, references to names of horses that are someway, somehow similar in breeding, unnamed sources who (supposedly) made mythical predictions about suitability… it’s just wearisome. And then I’m never sure if the photo I’m looking at is actually the horse in question.

I think she’d be more successful if she composed straightforward, succinct ads without the hyperbole. Then match that with a couple of professional photos of the horse stood up properly and maybe a short video revealing its movement. No one needs to see a baby horse running down a lane and hurtling itself over some poles.

Or maybe that’s just me.

[good_booie]

@Paint_Party

No one needs to see a baby horse running down a lane and hurtling itself over some poles.

yup. That jump chute just trashes it/her up even more.

[Aussie_2020]

Coth has a lovely story of a rescue DHH. The coloring of the horse reminds me of whatever her name is that had (has? I hope not) the starving horses. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/from-rescue-to-ribbons-colbys-crew-rescue-makes-a-new-start-in-a-new-year/

[ParadoxFarm]

@Aussie_2020

Coth has a lovely story of a rescue DHH. The coloring of the horse reminds me of whatever her name is that had (has? I hope not) the starving horses. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/from-rescue-to-ribbons-colbys-crew-rescue-makes-a-new-start-in-a-new-year/

I read this article, too. He reminds me of one of mine quite a bit in looks!

[Amelia_arabian_s]

Could I get your Facebook, so I can message you. I have questions