Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Night_Flight]

It feels like there are two conversations happening on this thread: those posting in defense of DHHs because they feel that any critique of these DHH crosses is a critique of all DHHs for any use, and those posting that the DHHs in question are not high-level hunter or jumper prospects and, on top of it, are likely to suffer side effects from malnutrition throughout their lives.

I read something posted by Kate Shearer a while back in which she was offended that someone had offered her $8000 for a foal because it had cost $20,000 to get it on the ground. I found it interesting that her argument had nothing to do with the actual value of the foal for its conformation/athleticism/temperament/future prospects, but rather how much it had cost for the semen, ICSI, associated vet costs, etc. The price was based on having selected an expensive process, rather than on the quality of the chosen animals.

[vxf111]

I have no problem with DHH. Several people I know have them as low level dressage and all around/trail riding types. They’re quite good for that. They also came from the Amish and cost $7000ish as broke adult horses. These foals don’t appear any nicer.

[phantomhorse]

@dags

I guarantee some unwitting buyer will look at it and go WOW LOOK AT THAT TROT

@BrownDerby

I looked at that pic and thought that exact thing… but I am a distance rider and only jump over things if I can’t find a way around them. Distance riders are fairly notorious for not wanting to spend money, so good luck finding one to pay 5 figures for any of these horses. I do have a friend who has owned a couple DHH which she used for both distance riding and fox hunting… but again a far cry from what these horses were supposedly bred for.

[skydy]

It looks like a Standardbred trot to me.

[BrownDerby]

There are some very nice ones on Equine Now sales listings. (Using that as a generic reference). Reasonably priced, registered, broke.

I would not touch anything with a ten foot pole if proper worming protocols have not been followed. Too many of those foals in the freezer at the nearby vet school. And frankly I would not trust those malnourished tendons to hold up for even the first year of training.

I really wonder how many of her foals are too weak to nurse, or even mares who are too sore to stand. That gray sure has a lot of jewelry.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Night_Flight

It feels like there are two conversations happening on this thread: those posting in defense of DHHs because they feel that any critique of these DHH crosses is a critique of all DHHs for any use, and those posting that the DHHs in question are not high-level hunter or jumper prospects and, on top of it, are likely to suffer side effects from malnutrition throughout their lives.

Exactly.

There are wonderful crossbreds out there, and full DHHs, who do their jobs well and are beloved by their owners.

But there are very few doing Grand Prix Dressage or jumping over 1.5m competitively.

I seriously doubt there are many at all showing competitively as hunters. Hunters are very much about a certain type and style. DHHs aren’t it. Which is fine.

Kate is trying to sell in utero - 2 year olds for anywhere from 15k - 40k . Those are the sort of prices people pay for legitimate top tier prospects. Her horses are not it. Period.

I have no idea what people pay for top notch National Show Horse or saddle seat prospects. I’m admittedly completely ignorant of that world. And I have no clue what people pay for top tier light harness horse prospects. My guess though, is that Kate’s horses are completely unappealing to those markets as well… because they are by Warmblood jumper stallions! Chacco Blue does not produce good harness horses. Seriously. No one wants a jumping harness horse. It’s not a good thing. They want one that trots around like Dondersteen.

Anyway… people seem to keep on getting offended at those of us who are criticizing Kate’s breeding program. We are not trashing DHHs. We are criticizing marketing these crosses as serious jumpers, and pricing them as such. Because it’s completely ridiculous.

[cattywampus]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

No one wants a jumping harness horse.

Probably a niche market…

[good_booie]

[skydy]

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Dear Lord.

[Scribbler]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@Night_Flight

It feels like there are two conversations happening on this thread: those posting in defense of DHHs because they feel that any critique of these DHH crosses is a critique of all DHHs for any use, and those posting that the DHHs in question are not high-level hunter or jumper prospects and, on top of it, are likely to suffer side effects from malnutrition throughout their lives.

Exactly.

There are wonderful crossbreds out there, and full DHHs, who do their jobs well and are beloved by their owners.

But there are very few doing Grand Prix Dressage or jumping over 1.5m competitively.

I seriously doubt there are many at all showing competitively as hunters. Hunters are very much about a certain type and style. DHHs aren’t it. Which is fine.

Kate is trying to sell in utero - 2 year olds for anywhere from 15k - 40k . Those are the sort of prices people pay for legitimate top tier prospects. Her horses are not it. Period.

I have no idea what people pay for top notch National Show Horse or saddle seat prospects. I’m admittedly completely ignorant of that world. And I have no clue what people pay for top tier light harness horse prospects. My guess though, is that Kate’s horses are completely unappealing to those markets as well… because they are by Warmblood jumper stallions! Chacco Blue does not produce good harness horses. Seriously. No one wants a jumping harness horse. It’s not a good thing. They want one that trots around like Dondersteen.

Anyway… people seem to keep on getting offended at those of us who are criticizing Kate’s breeding program. We are not trashing DHHs. We are criticizing marketing these crosses as serious jumpers, and pricing them as such. Because it’s completely ridiculous.

Exactly. Horses can be good of their kind but not a good fit for purpose bred sport, even the lower levels.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Scribbler

Exactly. Horses can be good of their kind but not a good fit for purpose bred sport, even the lower levels

Yes!

And if someone is looking for a good lower level horse… are they buying a yearling by a Grand Prix jumper stallion known for producing offspring suitable for pros, and paying $40,000 for it?

No. No they aren’t.

They are mostly buying something that has already been started under saddle and is a known quantity in terms of having an amateur friendly temperament.

[dags]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

But there are very few doing Grand Prix Dressage or jumping over 1.5m competitively.

You could safely put a 1 in front of that 5. The bar would then be reasonable and the statement would still be true.

[Marla_100]

bears repeating- “that you wouldn’t trust those tendons
to hold up…”

I bought a 2 yr. old that later on blew both hind suspensories within a couple weeks time.
I dug deep for studies done on why this happened
Over and over I kept seeing that
poor nutrition as a foal could cause this. In utero as well I’m sure
SO YES, Buyer Beware.
Poor little foals.

[fargaloo1]

Ayup.

[fenwai]

This is my mustang gelding with his dam, on the range as a 2 year old (give or take). This was shortly before the gather, which happened sooner than expected because the grass was poor and many in the HMA (herd management area) weren’t doing well.

Just a reminder that the kind of neglect that we’ve seen in this thread is just that: Neglect. Confining horses who didn’t ask to be here in conditions that are not conducive to surviving, let alone thriving. Such a shame that KS has made these choices. Because that’s what they are. Choices. She chose to do this. It’s very sad.

[SpicyPRE]

@Night_Flight

I read something posted by Kate Shearer a while back in which she was offended that someone had offered her $8000 for a foal because it had cost $20,000 to get it on the ground. I found it interesting that her argument had nothing to do with the actual value of the foal for its conformation/athleticism/temperament/future prospects, but rather how much it had cost for the semen, ICSI, associated vet costs, etc. The price was based on having selected an expensive process, rather than on the quality of the chosen animals.

I saw that post and 100% agree with you. The value of the foal has zero to do with how much it cost you to put on the ground.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@SpicyPRE

I saw that post and 100% agree with you. The value of the foal has zero to do with how much it cost you to put on the ground.

That goes for almost anything. That’s why it’s wise to do a thorough market analysis before going into any sort of business. Also, that’s why people who are in a legitimate business try and actively manage their production costs.

[floppyammy]

Similar to the Sunk Cost Fallacy.

I had a similar type of encounter with a “horse owner” once. I can only speculate, based on my personal interactions with that person, that she had a drug abuse issue, as well as a host of mental/emotional issues. She was rough boarding at the time; her gelding never had enough hay/grain/bedding/hoof care, etc. He was an older guy, a standardbred with some stifle issues, but a good dooby. I felt sorry for him, so I offered to buy him off her for $800, to give the guy a soft landing. She was very offended, said he was worth much more, based off the fact that she paid for emergency surgery for him once upon a time

Rather than going based on market pricing, some individuals think their horse’s value should be equal to or greater than the money they have sunk into them.

[McGurk]

Sunk cost fallacy.