Get a new trainer. Don’t go back.
The situation you describe is unfair to the horse and unfair to the rider. Neither one of you had the tools for a good outcome.
I am a trainer, and have been for thirty years. Do not go back, and you don’t owe the trainer a Conversation. Start shopping.
It does not sound like the OP was matched with a green horse with no humour because the trainer thought she was up to it.
It sounds like the horse has been put in the program and is being used anyway.
If this was a story of an unsafe vehicle being used by a driving instructor in a driving lesson because, in the instructors opinion, learners have to know how to deal with a total break failure or the clutch cable snapping, would there be so many people in favour?
It is really hard to gauge without seeing the horse/rider combo to know whether the instructor’s professional judgment seemed appropriate or not. I am in the camp that there are a spectrum of lesson horses, and a spectrum of riders, and at some point I have any expectation that riders advance to horses with fewer miles to learn first, how not to interfere with a green horse and how to give them a positive experience, and second, how to eventually help the horse develop his skill set. Riders who think they are doing the training in that context, like professionals would, are probably deluding themselves, unless they have, in fact, developed many green horses over the years and are capable of doing it without a trainer’s direction. All that said, the biggest concern I have about what is reported here is that multiple students have come off the horse. If true, then the instructor is not using good professional judgment and not being realistic about where the horse and the riders reside on the spectrum of abilities. I expect it to be a rarity and fluke that lesson horse loses a rider. I have had green horses in our lesson program who have never lost a rider and that is because of instructor judgment and intervention. I am not saying students are never going to fall off, but this sounds like it could be too many spills and raises my alert level as to whether the instructor is making excuses for not having enough suitable lesson horses.
UNACCEPTABLE. A 3yo rescue that bucks everyone off is not a suitable lesson horse. Some of you are either at crappy lesson barns or don’t really care about your students ending up in the hospital.
What is up with all the new greenie posters who seem to think that a beginner student deserves to get dumped off some rank SOB?
You learn nothing. Green on green means black and blue. ALWAYS. And don’t sit on your couch and tell me about how when you were 12 your trainer had your parents buy you a 17.4 hand OTTB and you guys bonded through magical fairy dust and now he jumps 5 feet.
No. Because while at some point many riders will want to buy a green horse or one that’s finished but complicated, few will be just hopping on that horse and blithely attempting to accomplish a regular lesson’s worth of work without some due diligence. Yet, this is exactly what this trainer did if we take the OP’s account at face value. I grew up riding and working at a barn in a wealthy suburban area that had 50+ horses at any given time to keep up with the demand for lessons. The barn owners bought cheap the egs of the equine world that no one else wanted. As a small, athletic, daredevil teen with a bit of a horse whisperer knack I got asked to ride a lot of them. Especially the small ponies as no one else fit on them. Including one nasty, dirty, bucker that would toss you 15’ into the air without warning because he’d learned bucking the rider meant he got to go back to the barn.
Before I got on any of these new horses for her, the head trainer would brief me on that horse. Not because they thought I was an idiot who couldn’t ride. Because they were the ones who had test ridden the horse prepurchase, lunged it, possibly had someone else fall off it. Whereas I was walking into a party that had already started. I knew that if I didn’t keep the dirty bucker’s head up he would buck. I knew that he would try to fake you out so you’d let him put his head down to buck. Armed with this information, I was able to ride purposefully and make meaningful progress with him to get him to where you could safely put a child on him. He bucked me exactly once. And his mind was blown when I got back on and made him keep working. Had I not been warned about the intensity of his bucking prior to riding him, I wouldn’t have been able to ride defensively and probably would’ve gotten hurt too badly to get back on him after the buck.
Hell. A few months ago I was warming my leased horse up at a walk with my stirrups dropped when the trainer rushed down to tell me my horse had nearly dumped his owner (a pro) in the field the day before in a rearing episode that was quite out of character for him. He’d been quite content for our stretchy walk but she and the owner were worried maybe something was hurting him. So she got on him and put him through his paces to see if he reacted because being more effective riding through that kind of reaction on an athletic FEI-level horse than I am is part of the reason I pay her. When the show jumper who was once the coach for the US eventing team comes to do training rides, she gves him a rundown on the horse on the walk to the mounting block. She warned him when a horse he’d ridden several times before reared with someone since the last time he rode it. My kid’s trainer tells them about new horses before they get on. This is just what normal, responsible, trainers who care about their colleagues and clients do. When a horse comes to them for training with no background info they normally don’t just jump on themselves. They lunge or long line or do round pen work first to get a sense of what the horse is like.
And where did you get that she fell because her leg was in the wrong place? OP indicated the crow hopping occurred, they regrouped and corrected the ‘wrong’ cue, and had actually cantered for a period before she lost her stirrup.
Yes, it’s super valuable to have a beginner rider get bucked off someone’s 3yo. WTF!!! How old are you? Someone who’s having difficulty picking up the canter aids shouldn’t be within 20 feet of a 3yo.
Completely agree with this post.
This horse is FOUR. We should assume that it’s either coming 4, or just turned 4? based on the time of year - an age when most horses are just getting started - or just getting started in “real work” (unless they are OTTBs), so green is a “given.”
Good lesson horses should be reliable in their responses to riders because people learn from repetition, and build confidence from riding a horse who is reasonably forgiving and trained well enough to respond to most basic requests in a predictable way. If the rider gives clashing aids, is unbalanced, timid, lacks a strong core and good timing (like most beginner types), the horse should be able to tune that out and either stop, or keep rolling along, oblivious. They need to be take a joke types.
(I have taught at lesson barns - basic balanced seat instruction - and we never put a less than brave, experienced, strong and balanced rider on the more sensitive and reactive schoolhorses. Geez, a 4 year old in a lesson program? That would never have happened. :-/ And this was 25 years ago when people were less litigious!)
If a horse is too green to be consistent in its response to aids (which is most green 4 year olds), it doesn’t make a good lesson horse UNLESS a trainer is putting an experienced, advanced student on it - which both helps teach the horse to learn to be more consistent in its responses, and also trains the (capable) student to be more precise, patient, balanced and tactful. This can be a “win/win.” These horses shouldn’t go into the lesson string to be ridden by anyone and everyone, and as @Bending Line points out, when multiple people have come off this inappropriate green lesson horse? Just, no.
A 4 year old is still learning, all lesson students are also still learning.
This trainer is either irresponsible, unethical, lazy, or has bad judgment. Maybe a combination.
Sorry - OP - I think you have answered your own question. Not sure what to advise, but you aren’t required to ride this horse (I feel sorry for the poor horse!, who deserves better treatment, and a consistent program of training with the fewest riders possible so he can learn his ABCs, correctly and patiently. He might make a good lesson horse, in time.)
Personally I would find a better trainer…Best of luck!
When I was a kid and every hunter was a TB, my barn used to get new TB’s in often. After a few rides by the trainers, students would start riding them BUT they were not just part of the general population of schoolies. There were a few fairly advanced students who didn’t have horses or some brave kids looking to take on a project in addition to their own horse. We who rode these horses knew that we were being taught to train the horse during these sessions, under trainer guidance. Typically a horse would only have one or 2 riders, so that consistency was maintained and rides were shorter than standard lessons so as not to overload the horse.
When you asked for the canter and were told you gave the wrong cue had the instructor told you the correct one? This is where the guidance comes in. I feel that it is incumbent on the trainer to let the student in on any quirks or triggers a horse has, especially a green one who has been erratic before. I’ve been told many times “don’t tip forward in front of the fence, this horse WILL STOP!” It’s something I want to know. Not fair for the instructor to stand over my fallen self wagging a finger and saying, Oh, he stops if you get at all ahead…
You mention that this is a “rescue” which can mean many things. It might be that this horse was “rescued” from an auction or some such and his antics are what put him there. If so, he’s not suitable for lessons. Maybe he’s a nice horse who needs training. It doesn’t sound like the instructor has the ability to teach her students how to train him so maybe she needs to do it before using him in lessons.
Its hard to field a lesson string. The mix of horses needed with the right attitude is hard to find. Schoolies need to be able to tolerate a mistake without flying into a murderous rage. If this horse is known to act this way and it sounds like others have fallen, he’s a ticking time bomb. I’d be looking for a new barn if the trainer is so casual about it.
Horse is 4. OP described themselves as “experienced”. Maybe you should read the OP before flipping out.
Ohh, the horse being 4 really makes a difference. Clearly the OP is not an experienced rider, and this horse bucks off lots of students.
That is not a lesson horse.
We’re not talking about an older upper level schoolmaster teaching people the finer things in life.
What we have is a trainer who can’t afford good lesson horses and “rescues” whatever is the cheapest then makes excuses about why all her students get dumped.
Your advice is terrible.
Thank you. I have to agree that they seem to be using the poor students as crash test dummies for that horse there and it seems unfair to the green students for them to be so irresponsible. I did sustain a pretty bad grade 2 concussion and am pretty black and blue so I am out of riding for a few weeksðŸ˜. My confidence was pretty shattered though since Im one of the people who rides the greenies and all the “too crazy for students”at my normal barn, been fine and had fun. I’ll probably go back in a couple weeks after I am healed, have regained some confidence with my own horse and at my usual barn and see how things go and decide from there.
Not sure if you meant me, and if you didn’t then I apologize for misunderstanding. Nowhere in my post did I intend to suggest that a beginner student deserves to get dumped off or that it is advisable to put a student in a situation where they may get thrown. OP also didn’t outright say if they were a beginner or not, so I was merely giving my perspective as to when a green horse in lessons could be beneficial and to when it is not. Ultimately, OP should be able to evaluate whether this situation was appropriate in retrospect or If the instructor failed to practice appropriate protocols when planning this lesson. Personally, it does seem like the latter in my opinion, but I wasn’t there and I don’t have all the details.
I’m a certified instructor and I certainly would never put any of my students on a horse I thought they couldn’t handle. However, accidents do occasionally happen even when we try our best planning the lesson to avoid any incidents, after all, we are dealing with a live animal here. Whilst I have seen greenies in lesson programs before, I am of neutral opinion on the matter because, as I’ve described in my post, it could depend on the situation at hand. Some green horses have excellent temperaments for that matter and would be good mounts to learn on, for the right rider. Riders who are solid and confident could benefit a lot from learning how to train with instruction. Conversely, riders who are not yet at that stage can stand to lose a lot. It’s really not a black and white situation, although it would be nice in a perfect world if every lesson horse was a school master. Usually though, riders who only ride perfectly trained horses have lots of difficulties in riding not so well trained horses in the future because they don’t know how to deal with it. Again, I’m not saying that riders should be put on unsuitable horses. I’ve never condoned matching a beginner with such a horse as I don’t see much of any benefit in that sort of situation nor would I want any rider to get hurt.
To that matter, I do agree with you that a horse that has already exhibited bucking several times is not a suitable lesson horse to learn on.
I just read the OP again and it doesn’t sound like the horse is green at all. On the contrary, it seems like a sensitive type that wants to be ridden correctly. The type of horse that will give an over-confident, under-skilled riders a reality check. I’ve had some in my program that I think might work for a certain person. Sometimes I’m spot-on…sometimes it’s cringe-worthy. I’m just saying, it’s hard to pass judgement on the scenario without seeing all the angles
OP given the outcome, I’d suggest not going back to the barn with the greenie. If they are putting green students on this horse, then that is not responsible and I’d question the quality of teaching as well. I want to emphasize that falling off was not your fault and that it can happen to the best of us. Take your time for recovery and do follow up on your concussion. You should check in with a doctor on that and potentially see a concussion clinic as well. I’m not sure if those are as common in places other than Canada? Often, the symptoms of concussions may be longer than people realize and you want to make sure that you are in the safe zone before you go back to riding.
Well, the added information OP is now laid up with a grade 2 concussion and shaken confidence as a result of this fall off a school horse with a reputation for dumping people hints that this goes well beyond the Green horse in a lesson program question. Sounds like a ( reportedly) 4 year old with totally unknown background picked up free or dirt cheap stuck in a school string despite a reputation for dumping students.
You don’t get a concussion through a helmet unless you get thrown off pretty hard versus the typical slide over the shoulder at slow motion speed. Reeks of poor judgement or recklessness on the part of this trainer. If it was the first time this happened, I’d be more inclined to accept trainers decision to use him…but it’s not, he is known to dump riders, no business being in a school program. Not because he’s Green but because he’s simply not suited and has hurt people.
If I do go back I definitely won’t ride that horse again. I’d go back to one of their other horses that I’ve had better experiences with. They also have a different trainer there that I might try instead. It makes me very sad that this happened because I was really liking this trainer and then things just went overall very sour this last time. Trying to take my time for recovery, but it is very hard to be patient when you can’t do what makes up your life. I did see a doctor and a chiropractor. I’m not supposed to go to the barn at all to see my horse until Monday and not allowed to ride for at least one to two weeks after the symptoms are gone. We are definitely keeping an eye on it though. It’s very hard not to be depressed though when I can’t do the one thing keeping me sane through the COVID19 quarantine. At least in my area concussion clinics aren’t very common.
I’m glad you’ll be taking your time post-concussion and that you are working with your doctor in recovery. As for the other instructor, that could work; however, take last ride as a lesson and do not let any instructor push you into something you are uncomfortable with. If they try and make you, then they are not the instructor for you. The instructor is risking your and the other students progress and safety by putting you in that situation.
The thing that I’m stuck on is that nowhere in OP’s account did this “trainer” DISCUSS with the OP the best way to go about riding this horse. OP is in the process of changing disciplines. While good riding is good riding, there would be some differences between the way a show hunter and a saddle seat horse would be cued, for example. Who in their right mind with insurance bills to pay stands there and plays a game of Gotcha! with anyone, much less a paying student. Hell. I mentioned in my post upthread how my trainer warned someone who has coached a national team that the horse had exhibited a new & potentially dangerous behavior since their last ride. It’s just common courtesy. When my kids did a winter league similar to IEA where they rode the host barn’s horses more or less sight unseen, the coaches got a packet with detailed notes on the temperament and quirks of each horse.
As someone who teaches yoga and other fitness classes and has ridden for 35 years I’m sometimes amazed at the lack of responsibility for the physical safety of students by a sizable minority of riding instructors. When I teach a mixed level class and offer an advanced option along with the basic one, my eyes are on my students and I’m ready to discreetly intervene if I spot a newbie attempting to contort into King Pigeon like the practitioner on the next mat with 30 years of yoga experience. I don’t even offer such options to a Level 1 class. Sometimes I look around and mentally scrap my class plan depending on who shows up. Doesn’t mean I don’t challenge my students - people cheerfully tell me that the class whooped their a$$ all the time. The challenge comes from poses that are safe for beginners but scaled in difficultly.
Even if money was all that mattered, why would anyone want to deliberately hurt students? Injured students are lost revenue. Full stop.
There’s a big difference between putting an appropriately trained student on a green horse and putting a student on a green horse that panics and bucks. Negligent, IMO, to do the latter.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
